About E-Z830 DYS472=9


Posts: 2444
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:26 pm
This I am reading in a blog: "Well, E1b1b1-M35 is one of the most important major haplogroups since together with J, it is almost certainly the male founder of the Jewish people. E-M35 subclades are very common in the Levant which supports even more the Levantine origins of Western Jews".
But there is a subclade of E-Z830 marked by DYS472=9 instead of the usual 8. This is one of the slowest mutating marker and very likely the mutation happened only one time in E-M35, thus all the people with this value descend from an unique ancestor. There is a Jewish cluster which seems recent and presuppose, as it happens for other Jewish clusters, an unique recent ancestor. Was he a Jew from Middle East as the anonymous blogger says?
This cluster has the values of the first series (from DYS590 to DYS511)
8 10 9 9 11 9
We find some variance in the Jewish pool, but this is probably due to the high expansion of the Ashkenazi Jews rather than to its ancientness:
8 10 9 9 11 10
8 10 9 9 11 11
and the mutations happened in DYS511 which isn't so slow mutator like the others.
But the presence of the Italian Cozzolino
N71690 Cozzolino Italy E-M35
13 24 14 10 16-16 11 12 13 14 11 33 16 9-9 11 11 26 14 20 33 17-17-17-17 11 11 21-22 16 12 18 19 33-36 12 10 11 8 15-15 8 10 9 9 11 9 0 17-22 20 11 12 12 14 7 11 24 18 13 12 11 14 11 11 11 11
which doesn't clearly derive from any Jew of the pool for his multiple mutations and also of some Iberians
29554 Araujo-Roper Unknown Origin E-M78
13 24 13 10 16-17 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9-9 11 11 26 14 20 34 14-16-16-16 9 11 19-21 16 12 17 22 32-32 11 10 10 8 15-15 8 11 10 9 12 10 0 23-24 18 11 12 12 17 7 12 22 18 12 13 12 14 11 11 11 11
192435 Velasco Unknown Origin E-L117
13 23 13 9 12-15 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 8-9 11 11 26 14 22 37 14-15-16-16 10 11 19-22 15 13 16 20 35-36 10 10 10 8 15-15 8 10 10 9 9 10 0 22-24 18 11 12 12 16 7 13 19 18 13 13 12 14 11 12 11 11 34 15 8 16 10 21 28 19 12 11 14 11 12 9 12 11 10 11 12 29 12 12 18 14 11 11 19 16 17 12 23 14 11 15 25 14 22 21 12 14 19 9 13 11
shed many doubts about the true origin from Middle East also of this presupposed Jewish haplogroup.

Posts: 2444
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:19 pm
J1: 8 10 9 9 11 9
J2: 8 10 9 9 11 10
J3: 8 10 9 9 11 11
Ib1: 8 11 10 9 12 10
Ib2: 8 10 10 9 9 10
Original series
8 10 10 9 10 10 from 8 10 10 8 10 10
1) Ib2: 8 10 10 9 9 10
2) *8 10 10 9 11 10
2a) Ib1: 8 11 10 9 12 10
2b) 8 10 9 9 11 10 (J2 and Italian)
2c) 8 10 9 9 11 9 (J1)
2d) 8 10 9 9 11 11 (J3)

Which conclusions? That the haplogroup was born in Iberia and the Jewish cluster introgressed from Italy.

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