lgmayka and the new E-V13 haplotree


Posts: 2348
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:52 am
lgmayka posted the new E-V13 haplotree on Anthrogenica. It seems once more that Tuscans are the oldest!
E1b1b1a1b1aL142/L142.2/L142.1 * PF2220/L542 * PF2211/V13 * PF2210/V36 * PAGES00102
YF01811 n/anew
E1b1b1a1b1a*
E-Z5016Z5016 * Z5017/CTS12184 * Z2180
E-S26015CTS2001 * CTS6377 * CTS8092 * S12376 * S20250...
E-S26015*
YF01613 BLR
YF01707 n/a
E-Y3856Y3856
HG01072 PUR
YF01641 n/a
E-Z5016*
NA20516 TSI
E-Z5018Z5018
E1b1b1a1b1a3L17 * YSC0001337 * PF4222 * F836 * S9054...
HG01054 PUR
E-S2979S2979 * CTS8780 * CTS4431
YF01502 n/a
E-Z16242A160/Z16242 * Z2162 * S1896/CTS9608 * L1019
HG01107 PUR
YF01646 n/a
E-Z5018*
NA20528 TSI
NA20510 TSI

HG01308 PUR
Last edited by Gioiello on Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 2348
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:24 am
It seems that the variance of the Tuscan haplotypes is very high:

Population SampleID YHaplogroup
DYS576 DYS389I DYS448 DYS389II DYS19 DYS391 DYS481 DYS549 DYS533 DYS438 DYS437 DYS570 DYS635 DYS390 DYS439 DYS392 DYS643 DYS393 DYS458 DYS385a DYS385b DYS456 Y-GATA-H4

TSI NA20510 E1b1b1a2
18 12 19 29 13 10 22 12 12 10 14 17 21 24 12 11 12 13 15 16 18 17 11

13 24 13 12 16-18 xx xx 12 12 11 29

TSI NA20516 E1b1b1a2
17 13 20 30 13 10 22 13 12 10 14 20 22 24 11 11 12 13 15 16 19 17 12

13 24 13 10 16-19 xx xx 11 13 11 30

TSI NA20528 E1b1b1a2
19 13 20 31 13 10 22 14 12 10 14 21 22 24 13 11 12 13 15 17 17 15 12

13 24 13 10 17-17 xx xx 10 13 11 31

Posts: 2348
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:35 am
These samples come from the "Jewish E Project":
N45310 Jacob Gettinger Germany E-L542
13 24 13 10 16-19 11 12 12 13 11 30
Unconfirmed Ancestry
N4557 William Goodrich, b.c. 1545, Suffork, England England E-V13
13 24 13 10 16-19 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9-9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14-16-17-17 9 10 19-21 15 12 18 19 33-34 11 10 10 8 15-15 8 11 10 8 12 10 0 22-24 17 11 12 12 16 7 12 23 18 13 13 11 15 11 11 11 11
and should be compared with this Tuscan sample
TSI NA20516 E1b1b1a2
17 13 20 30 13 10 22 13 12 10 14 20 22 24 11 11 12 13 15 16 19 17 12
13 24 13 10 16-19 xx xx 11 13 11 30 15 x-x xx xx xx 14 20 xx xx-xx-xx-xx x 11 xx-xx 17 xx 17 20 xx-xx xx 10
DYS481=22
DYS549=13
DYS533=12
DYS635=22
DYS643=12
Tuscans from Jews or Jews from Tuscans?
Interesting also this haplotype:
119458 Germany E-L542
13 24 13 10 16-19 11 12 12 13 11 30 16 9-9 11 11 26 14 20 31 14-16-16-17 9 11 19-21 17 12 16 21 31-36 11 10

Posts: 2348
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:54 am
These samples
E1b1b1a2* Israelite (I)
60030 Belarus E-L542
13 24 13 10 17-17 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 8-9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16-16-17-17 9 10 19-21 16 12 18 21 32-34 11 10 10 8 15-15 8 11 10 8 12 10 0 23-24 18 11 12 12 15 7 12 22 18 12 13 12 14 11 11 11 11
97101 Jacob Brown, b. circa 1830, Warsaw-Russia Poland E-M78
13 24 13 10 17-17 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 8-9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16-16-17-17 9 11 19-21 15 12 18 21 32-34 11 10 10 8 15-15 8 11 10 8 12 10 0 23-24 18 11 12 12 15 7 12 22 18 12 13 12 14 11 11 11 11
N44391 Adolf Steiner Slovakia E-V36
13 24 13 10 17-17 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 8-9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16-16-17-17 9 11 19-21 16 12 19 21 32-34 11 10 10 8 15-15 8 11 10 8 12 10 0 23-24 18 11 12 12 15 7 12 22 18 12 13 12 14 11 11 11 11
41231 Moise Modiano b.c. 1805 Salonika, Ottoman Empire Italy E-L542
13 24 13 10 17-17 11 12 12 14 11 31 15 9-9 11 11 27 14 20 32 14-16-17-18 9 11 19-21 17 12 18 19 32-33 11 10
157678 Cemach Isaac Kleinman, abt 1843 - 1927 Poland E-V13
13 24 13 10 17-17 11 12 13 13 11 30 15 8-9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16-16-16-17 9 11 19-21 16 12 18 19 32-34 11 10
42529 Zeev Kitzes, b.c.1685, Medzhybizh, Ukraine Ukraine E-M78
13 24 13 10 17-17 11 12 13 13 11 30 15 8-9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16-16-16-17 9 11 19-21 16 12 18 21 32-34 11 10
73392 m. hymowitz Romania E-M78
13 24 13 10 17-17 11 12 13 13 11 30 15 8-9 11 11 26 14 20 33 16-16-17-17
should be compared with this Tuscan one:
TSI NA20528 E1b1b1a2
19 13 20 31 13 10 22 14 12 10 14 21 22 24 13 11 12 13 15 17 17 15 12

13 24 13 10 17-17 xx xx 10 13 11 31 15 x-x xx xx xx 14 20 xx xx-xx-xx-xx x 11 xx-xx 15 xx 19 21 xx-xx xx 10

DYS481=22
DYS549=14
DYS533=12
DYS635=22
DYS643=12

Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:26 pm
Location: Paris region
YDNA:
G2a2b2a1b1a2a-CT4803
MtDNA:
H2a2a1 (rCRS)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:07 pm
I haven't see there was a change in ISOGG concerning M78 and derived

http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE.html
• • • • • • • E1b1b1a1 L18, M78/PF2186
• • • • • • • • E1b1b1a1a Z1902
• • • • • • • • • E1b1b1a1a1 V12/Z1216
.......
• • • • • • • • • E1b1b1a1a2 PF2272/V65
• • • • • • • • E1b1b1a1b CTS4231/PF2137/Z1919, CTS4235/PF2228/Z1920
• • • • • • • • • E1b1b1a1b1 L618
• • • • • • • • • • E1b1b1a1b1a L142.1, L542/PF2220, Page102, PF2211/V13, PF2210/V36
..............
• • • • • • • • • E1b1b1a1b2 CTS9547/L677, V22
................
• • • • • • • • E1b1b1a1c M521

E-V13 is always parallel to E-V22 Lower Egypt and Levant and now well- separated from the African E-V122 and E-V65.

May be an ancestor E-L618 come from South Levant or Nil Delta by sea, probably one of the first epipaleolithic seafisher/collectors who settled on the coast of the Egean Sea and the new mutation V13 was spread in the South Balkans during mesolithic and later during neolithtic a lot farer.

Posts: 2348
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:35 pm
palamede wrote:E-V13 is always parallel to E-V22 Lower Egypt and Levant and now well- separated from the African E-V122 and E-V65.

May be an ancestor E-L618 come from South Levant or Nil Delta by sea, probably one of the first epipaleolithic seafisher/collectors who settled on the coast of the Egean Sea and the new mutation V13 was spread in the South Balkans during mesolithic and later during neolithtic a lot farer.


Hi Palamede, what you say is possible, anyway...
1) The pretension of many peoples on the fora and on the papers that E was African, J Arab or Jewish, T Phoenician etc. is broken in pieces. As I am saying from years these haplogroups may be in Europe from thousands of years, and of course, and probably more likely, your G.
2) Not all the Jews hg. E, J, T etc. come surely from Israel: they may be introgressed from Europe after the Diaspora, and I think having carried many samples.
3) I don't speak of hg. R1b1 and the pretension that it came from Middle East: about this I have written tons of letters.
4) About E-V13, belonging so far Tuscans of the 1KGP to the oldest subclades, I wouldn't be sure that it originated in the Balkans more than in Italy. Anyway it seems to me demonstrated that hg. E wasn't born in Africa, but introgressed from Eurasia.

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