Searching for the ancestor of E-M81*


Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:13 am
We all have asked which is the ancestor of all the E-M81 in Northern Africa and Southern Europe, as YFull gives a MRCA only 2100 years ago. YFull uses the SNP M81 because more reliable than M183 which has many no calls and being these SNPs at the same level. I posted elsewhere that
"It seems that these two samples are at the origin of all the E-M183 of to-day:
YF02499 E-M81*
13 24 13 9 13 15 11 12 10 14 11 30
and
YF02467 E-Y8827*
13 24 13 9 13 13 11 12 10 14 11 30
They were close, but from a close relative of YF02467 may have come in a starlike expansion all the descendants, also for having DYS454=12, a very slow mutating marker".
This is the pathway of the hg.:
E1b1b1b M5323/S24409 * CTS7890/M5239 * S25930... 1 SNPs formed 24000 ybp, TMRCA 23800 ybp
E1b1b1b1 CTS1271/M5064 * CTS6304 * CTS5480/PF2360... 106 SNPs formed 23800 ybp, TMRCA 13900 ybp
Under that we have two subclades:
a) E-PF2431 FGC18913/Y10538 * PF2466 * PF2431... 21 SNPs formed 13900 ybp, TMRCA 10900 ybp
b) E-M81 CTS5883/PF2363/M5193 * CTS6955/PF2530/M5037 * M5024... 145 SNPs formed 13900 ybp, TMRCA 2100 ybp
Thus the misterious E-M81 seems springing up from a bottleneck from 13900 to 2100 years ago. The other sublade is more readable. We have three subclades:
a) E-PF2431* id:HG02317 ACB
b) E-PF2438 FGC18915/Y10559 * PF2469 * FGC18918/Y10542... 12 SNPsformed 10900 ybp, TMRCA 9200 ybp
E-PF2438*
id:HG01699 IBS
c) E-Y10539 Y11300 * FGC18923/Y10561 * FGC18922/Y10562... 20 SNPsformed 9200 ybp, TMRCA 6900 ybp
id:HG02798 GWD
id:YF02677
but the last is derived from the second (and we should check the hypothesis if it is the subclade remained in Africa of the European hunter-gatherers migrated there who perhaps brought to Africa R-V88). The problem is to understand if HG02317 ACB, a Caribbean African, has an African or an European Y.
About the other subclade, which seems rooted in Europe, I can say more, because the three Sardinians from Francalacci et al. 2015, samples 46, 47, 48, belong to this subclade.
Of the SNPs from YFull we have that HG01699 and Sardinians (46,47,48) have in common:
FFGC18915/Y10559/[FE2214]/Y23514921(A>G)
PF2469
FGC18918/Y10542/Y7115090(C>G)
PF2438
Z21072/Y10544/Y7210606(C>T)
Z21071/Y10543/Y7210592(T>C)
FGC18910/Y11573/Y8078783(A>G)
FGC18909/Y11583/[FE2025/Y19013474(G>A)
FGC18905/Y10547/Y8299572(C>A)
Y10557/Y22832015(T>A)
Z21074/Y11572/Y22832011(G>A)
They don't share:
FGC18912/Y10556/Y22591636(C>T)
FGC18919/Y10541/Y6980402(A>T)
FGC18911/Y10550/Y15084879(G>C)
FGC18916 /Y11585/Y23781353(C>A)
But amongst the shared SNPs, three (Z21074/Y11572/Y22832011(G>A), Y10557/Y22832015(T>A), FGC18910/Y11573/Y8078783(A>G)) belong only to the sample 48, thus we have to hypothesize that Iberian sample is linked with Sardinian 48 but not with 46 and 47, and this could be a proof that Iberian E-PF2438 descend from people come from Sardinia/Italy or both from people from elsewhere. Next data will clarify the question.

Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:04 pm
Of course I have to work a lot about that, because Francalacci samples are at low coverage and there are many no calls to take into account and also the private SNPs may be counted as possible no calls in the other two samples. Thus much to work... but now I have to cut the grass...

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