About E-V65 and Jewish ancestry


Posts: 2407
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:48 am
This is what is said by Wikipedia about E-V65:

E1b1b1a1d (E-V65)
This sub-clade, equivalent to the previously classified "beta cluster", is found in high levels in the Maghreb regions of far northern Africa. Cruciani et al. (2007) report levels of about 20% amongst Libyan Arab lineages, and about 30% amongst Moroccan Arabs. It appears to be less common amongst Berbers, but still present in levels of >10%. The authors suggest a North African origin for this lineage. In Europe, only a few individuals were found in Italy and Greece. The results from the article can be summarized as follows...
E-V65 YCAIIa YCAIIb DYS413a DYS413b DYS19 DYS391 DYS393 DYS439 DYS460 DYS461 A10
modal 19 21 21 23 13 10 13 10 10 11 13
min 19 20 20 22 11 10 13 10 9 9 12
max 21 21 22 23 14 11 14 11 11 12 13
number 38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38

Capelli et al. (2009) studied the beta cluster in Europe. They found small amounts in Southern Italy, but also traces in Cantabria, Portugal and Galicia, with Cantabria having the highest level in Europe in their study, at 3.1% (5 out of 161 people).

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Then the value of DYS439 is given modal=10, max=11. This Jew from the Jewish E project at FTDNA has these values and SNPs:

N19276 E1b1b1a1d E-V65 L18+, M107-, M123-, M136-, M148-, M165-, M224-, M281-, M34-, M35.1+, M78+, M81-, M96+, P2+, V12-, V13-, V19-, V22-, V27-, V32-, V36-, V65+

E1b1b1a4
N19276 Germany E1b1b1a1d
13 24 13 10 16-18 11 12 12 12 12 29 14 9-9 11 11 27 14 21 32 15-16-16-17 10 10 19-21 15 12 16 20 32-34 11 10

Then there are without any doubt some E-V65 with DYS439=12 or more. The case is that this high value is the most diffused amongst the European E-V65, and this, once more, put the problem of the true origin of this Jew, whether from Middle East or for an introgression from one European man.
We shouldn’t forget that one E-V65 was amongst the 51 Tuscans tested by 1KGP, and the other was one Colombian, someone certainly thinks from Spain and from a Sephardic Jew. But, also this time, could have happened the other way around.

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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:19 pm
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:33 pm
It appears now that E-V65 is more related to E-V12, than it is to E-V13 or E-V22, according to strict SNP based phylogeny. E-V12's distribution spans for the most part the Northeastern section of Africa, from Egypt to Ethiopia, and does not have much of a presence in the Levant or Europe, the case for E-V13 and E-V22 is rather different however, more of the reverse in fact, especially for E-V13.

Posts: 2407
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:02 pm
Many thanks Etyopis for your replay, but I wasn’t investigating the ancient origin of E-V65 and of the other subclades of E-M78 (here you know that nothing is certain so far, and I don’t give for certain either the origin of man in Africa (“Out of Africa”) or of haplogroup E). Africa has so far the highest presence of hg. E, and also some ancient clades, but we haven’t so far certainty of this, I do mean aDNA etc. And you know that the “ancestor” of E-M78, i.e. E-V68, has been found in Sardinia and probably it is there from many thousands of years.
I was discussing about some recent migrations and introgressions, like those examined by Capelli et al. 2009. E-V65 may be present in Europe long before the supposed North African introgressions and, specifically, the case of this Jew I cited above: it isn’t said that he is of Middle Eastern origin, he could be of European one.
Any case should be understood in its own.

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