Villicus

User avatar
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 3:21 pm

YDNA:
U152-Z56-Z146
MtDNA:
K1a2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:35 pm
Gioiello wrote:
Villicus wrote:Hello Diana! I hope they listen to you.


Villicus, they won't be going to listen Diana (in fact they deleted also her post), and I have no intention to be in contact with AJL, Humanist, DMXX, JoeB and the few others who claimed AJL's answer. The problem is why many thousands of people not Jews, not Assyrians, not Iranians etc. but "European" permit to this gang to be the owners of the forums, to be linked with FTDNA and to permit its wrong tests, its wrong trees, its useless tests, its dumping against all the other companies, to support the theories of Jewish researchers like Hammer and Behar I have demonstrated false and ideological and to try to prevent the papers like that of Costa's on the mt Jewish pool (at least 90% from European origin) are published.



They moved my thread and closed it so I couldn't respond, therefore, I requested they just delete it as I couldn't reply anyways.

Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:10 pm

YDNA:
R1b1b2a1a2d*
MtDNA:
X2b
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:30 pm
Sorry to hear that. I value Gioiello's opinion a great deal and wish there would not be such a conflict in our hobby where nothing is set in stone. There is simply too much that is unknown to discount anyone's opinion.
User avatar
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:19 am
Location: Family Line Veneto ( italy ) since ~1600
YDNA:
T1a2-Z19945
MtDNA:
H95a
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:18 pm
Diana wrote:
Gioiello wrote:
Villicus wrote:Hello Diana! I hope they listen to you.


Villicus, they won't be going to listen Diana (in fact they deleted also her post), and I have no intention to be in contact with AJL, Humanist, DMXX, JoeB and the few others who claimed AJL's answer. The problem is why many thousands of people not Jews, not Assyrians, not Iranians etc. but "European" permit to this gang to be the owners of the forums, to be linked with FTDNA and to permit its wrong tests, its wrong trees, its useless tests, its dumping against all the other companies, to support the theories of Jewish researchers like Hammer and Behar I have demonstrated false and ideological and to try to prevent the papers like that of Costa's on the mt Jewish pool (at least 90% from European origin) are published.



They moved my thread and closed it so I couldn't respond, therefore, I requested they just delete it as I couldn't reply anyways.



why did they do this.............should we not know the truth!
Fathers mtdna - T2b17 ...back to 1860 Bucciol line
Grandfathers mtdna - T1a1e ...back to 1820 Mestriner line
Sons Mtdna - K1a4 ....back to 1840 Tesser line
Maternal grandfather ydna - Ild-P109

Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:10 pm

YDNA:
R1b1b2a1a2d*
MtDNA:
X2b
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:21 pm
Probably best to just let it go to avoid further conflict. We can contact him here and get his thoughts and advice.

Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:56 pm

YDNA:
J-L147.1
MtDNA:
J1c5
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:50 am
Gioiello wrote:
Villicus wrote:Hello Diana! I hope they listen to you.


Villicus, they won't be going to listen Diana (in fact they deleted also her post), and I have no intention to be in contact with AJL, Humanist, DMXX, JoeB and the few others who claimed AJL's answer. The problem is why many thousands of people not Jews, not Assyrians, not Iranians etc. but "European" permit to this gang to be the owners of the forums, to be linked with FTDNA and to permit its wrong tests, its wrong trees, its useless tests, its dumping against all the other companies, to support the theories of Jewish researchers like Hammer and Behar I have demonstrated false and ideological and to try to prevent the papers like that of Costa's on the mt Jewish pool (at least 90% from European origin) are published.


The Costa et al. 2013 paper relies on sloppy phylogeographic analysis, I wouldn't really go down that way if I were you.

Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:06 am
העברי wrote:The Costa et al. 2013 paper relies on sloppy phylogeographic analysis, I wouldn't really go down that way if I were you.


What does it mean that? A "avvertimento mafioso"? I remember a post about hg J where it seemed that you gave reason to me about the fact that neither a Jewish J1 may be certain about his old Jewish origin? Are you this person?

"As far as I go, my uniparental markers are J1-ZS227 (Y-DNA) and J1c5 (mtDNA), my maternal grandfather was R1b-U152 (probably Z49), I suspect my paternal grandmother's father was E-M34 and that my maternal great-grandmother's father was R1b-U106 (I have a match with the very same surname and he carries this Y-DNA haplogroup, which fits with the fact that their family name is of Danish origin).
Autosomally, I plot right in between the Jewish and British clusters (consistent with my ancestry: Jewish father and British mother):
I often get ~45% Sephardic Jewish (Algerian Jew, Syrian Jew, Italian Jew, Turkish Jew, Moroccan Jew etc) + British as a fit, if I remove Jewish diaspora populations my ancestry gets proxied as ~41% Cypriot/50% Cretan/50% East Sicilian/ ~56% West Sicilian + ~59% Orcadian/50% East Norwegian/ 50% SE English/ ~44% Danish... If I triangulate my results, I end up plotting in Northen Italy even though I plot in a genetic no man's land in most PCAs:
Using Levantine populations, I mostly end up with fits such as ~35 Druze/Lebanese Christian/Samaritan/Syrian + British".

Thus you are Agamemnon. You can see that your hg. (what doesn't happen for other Jewish Y which have a MRCA about 1000 years ago and none close hp in other Jewish communities) is deeply rooted in the Jews and of course it is more likely of ancient Jewish origin, even though I didn't find your haplotype on Ysearch neither elsewhere and probably my Sclaro is only a close link. Show your data that everyone is able to study them like we all do: everyone may study my Y, my mt, my autosome.
About what you say on the Costa et al. paper, of course I don't agree with you: it seems to me that all those data are a demonstration of the fact that those Jewish hgs come from Europe, beginning from K1a1b1a (close to my K1a1b1e) and I have published here many "proofs" about that. Don't Jews agree? That they write freely their positions. They have scholars, labs, funds, perhaps long more than others. That Behar publishes the paper he promised. Who does prevent that? I have always said (and this from my first posts during 2007 on Rootsweb, posts that someone deleted) that I didn't exclude that many of these hgs could be introgressed in the Jewish pool before the diaspora, and, if someone will demonstrate that, I'll be glad to take it into account.

Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:56 pm

YDNA:
J-L147.1
MtDNA:
J1c5
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:02 am
Gioiello wrote:
העברי wrote:The Costa et al. 2013 paper relies on sloppy phylogeographic analysis, I wouldn't really go down that way if I were you.


What does it mean that? A "avvertimento mafioso"? I remember a post about hg J where it seemed that you gave reason to me about the fact that neither a Jewish J1 may be certain about his old Jewish origin? Are you this person?

"As far as I go, my uniparental markers are J1-ZS227 (Y-DNA) and J1c5 (mtDNA), my maternal grandfather was R1b-U152 (probably Z49), I suspect my paternal grandmother's father was E-M34 and that my maternal great-grandmother's father was R1b-U106 (I have a match with the very same surname and he carries this Y-DNA haplogroup, which fits with the fact that their family name is of Danish origin).
Autosomally, I plot right in between the Jewish and British clusters (consistent with my ancestry: Jewish father and British mother):
I often get ~45% Sephardic Jewish (Algerian Jew, Syrian Jew, Italian Jew, Turkish Jew, Moroccan Jew etc) + British as a fit, if I remove Jewish diaspora populations my ancestry gets proxied as ~41% Cypriot/50% Cretan/50% East Sicilian/ ~56% West Sicilian + ~59% Orcadian/50% East Norwegian/ 50% SE English/ ~44% Danish... If I triangulate my results, I end up plotting in Northen Italy even though I plot in a genetic no man's land in most PCAs:
Using Levantine populations, I mostly end up with fits such as ~35 Druze/Lebanese Christian/Samaritan/Syrian + British".

Thus you are Agamemnon. You can see that your hg. (what doesn't happen for other Jewish Y which have a MRCA about 1000 years ago and none close hp in other Jewish communities) is deeply rooted in the Jews and of course it is more likely of ancient Jewish origin, even though I didn't find your haplotype on Ysearch neither elsewhere and probably my Sclaro is only a close link. Show your data that everyone is able to study them like we all do: everyone may study my Y, my mt, my autosome.
About what you say on the Costa et al. paper, of course I don't agree with you: it seems to me that all those data are a demonstration of the fact that those Jewish hgs come from Europe, beginning from K1a1b1a (close to my K1a1b1e) and I have published here many "proofs" about that. Don't Jews agree? That they write freely their positions. They have scholars, labs, funds, perhaps long more than others. That Behar publishes the paper he promised. Who does prevent that? I have always said (and this from my first posts during 2007 on Rootsweb, posts that someone deleted) that I didn't exclude that many of these hgs could be introgressed in the Jewish pool before the diaspora, and, if someone will demonstrate that, I'll be glad to take it into account.


I'm merely pointing out that the aforementionned paper was recently overturned by Fernandez et al. 2014's reanalysis of PPNB remains, by no means should we assume that contemporary DNA is a substitute for aDNA. In fact, the authors of the aforementionned Costa et al. 2013 paper admit to several flaws in their sup data and even produce a contradictory conclusion based on the evidence at hand.
That's all really, I have no problem with having ancestry from the Italian peninsula (in fact, I rather like the though of it), I just thought this should be taken into account. Ashkenazi mtDNA could come from the eskimos for all I care, in the end I'll take archeogenetic data over contemporary data anytime (and this counts for my own Y lineage of course).

BTW: My maternal grandfather (British) was R-U152, I'm still trying to figure out which subclade he belonged to... I guess he was Z49 because his paternal relative's L2 came out as a "no call" on 23AndMe while L20 was negative. He could just as well have been Z56 for all I know.

Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:23 am
העברי wrote:
I'm merely pointing out that the aforementionned paper was recently overturned by Fernandez et al. 2014's reanalysis of PPNB remains, by no means should we assume that contemporary DNA is a substitute for aDNA. In fact, the authors of the aforementionned Costa et al. 2013 paper admit to several flaws in their sup data and even produce a contradictory conclusion based on the evidence at hand.
That's all really, I have no problem with having ancestry from the Italian peninsula (in fact, I rather like the though of it), I just thought this should be taken into account. Ashkenazi mtDNA could come from the eskimos for all I care, in the end I'll take archeogenetic data over contemporary data anytime (and this counts for my own Y lineage of course).

BTW: My maternal grandfather (British) was R-U152, I'm still trying to figure out which subclade he belonged to... I guess he was Z49 because his paternal relative's L2 came out as a "no call" on 23AndMe while L20 was negative. He could just as well have been Z56 for all I know.


Hi ha'ivrì, I thank you for your post.
1) I am inquiring about K1a1b1a from many years, and I have taken always into account that its origin may not be from an European haplotype but before the diaspora, just for its three mutations from K1a1b1 (my K1a1b1e has only 1), but this may be due to the great expansion of the ashkenazic pool, from 1 sample (or a few, because it isn't said that all the ashkenazic K1a1b1a have only 1 ancestor: there may have happened more than one introgressions) to many millions if we count all the millions killed in the WWII. The paper of Costa et al demonstrated, I think, that all these hgs is rooted in Europe, thus they are introgressed at some time in the Jewish pool, and, if they are found only in European Jews, that this happened in Europe is the most likable hypothesis.
2)I'll study again the question, but about Fernàndez, the funding of Iberian scholars and lastly also of Armenian ones (I have broken in pieces their papers many times) from the richest man of the world and from Jews too, I have written tons of letters.
3) About your ancestor U152, if he had a Y67, Z56 (the most likely Italian U152, but I think that all the others are too) has DYS492=14.
Previous

Return to R1b-U152/S28

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron