Anyone received the 411 on this particular SNP? I have been scowering the other forums for info......
A Genetic Genealogy Community
Y-DNA, Mt-DNA, Autosomal DNA
Y-DNA, Mt-DNA, Autosomal DNA
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:43 pm
Location: Orkney Islands Scotland
YDNA: Scots Modal L1065+
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:51 pm
Try this for a basic overview.
http://www.rcasey.net/DNA/R_L21/Analysi ... _DF41.html
148326 DF13** Celtic, Goidelic 111 Marker: Cook(UK/Scot Heritage) with a GD5, Codere(Watterson(McWalter))IOM GD8 and Ross Scotland GD13. O'Curry base haplotypes? Cluster 13*-1130-A1: 20 off-modals from L21.
Sorted slow to fast: 531=>12, 497=15, 511=11, 19=>15, 385a=12, 441=14, 552=25, 447=24, 513=11, 557=<15, 446=14, 464d=18, 456=18, 534=16, 449=31, 576=17, 710=36 and 712=>21 68-111Panel
DF13** Neg Big8; WTY Neg: L371 & L555.
This is my first post here at molgen. Since I recently (on the morning of 14 September 2012, to be precise) found out I am DF41+, I thought I would add my two cents to this thread.
We have an R-DF41 and Subclades Project: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-DF41/default.aspx?section=yresults
You can see for yourself what the ancestral origins of the members are: mostly the "Celtic Fringe" countries, with a couple from western England.
Here's another site with some info on DF41: http://www.semargl.me/ru/dna/ydna/item-snp/1309/
Interestingly, the royal House of Stewart, which produced a number of very famous kings of England and Scotland, has tested DF41+ (with L745, downstream of DF41, as its terminal SNP). Richard Scott, the 10th Duke of Buccleuch, recently tested DF41+ with Scotland's DNA. He is a direct descendant of King Charles II. The Duke owns more land than anyone else in Britain, including Drumlanrig Castle.
I encourage all DF13+ folks who haven't yet tested for it to test for DF41.
It's a kind of a funny coincidence that I turned out to be DF41+, since I have Family Finder matches with several of the L745+ Stewarts, and with persons with the surname Stewart in their pedigrees, through one of my maternal 2nd great grandmothers, Orpha L. Stewart, born 14 Feb 1842 in McKenzie, Carroll, Tennessee.
One of my favorite novels of all time, which I had read numerous times before I had a clue about DF41, etc., is Robert Louis Stevenson's Kidnapped, in which the Stewart Clan and the Jacobite Rebellion are central. It's kind of cool to get a genetic connection to all that, however tenuous.
Here's a photo of the Duke of Buccleuch and his family (he and his wife, two sons, and two daughters): http://thesinglepeer.blogspot.com/2010_10_01_archive.html
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:37 pm
Thanks for joining. You are the initiator of much of the discussion about L21, so its really cool to have you chime in.
DF41 an interesting SNP, to say the least. Due to the association with the Stewarts, do you think this has an origin in Bretagne or thereabouts? I think DF41 is quite old so it could have lineages from different places both on and/or off the continent.
Hi, Mike. Thanks for the welcome.
Re the Stewarts and their Breton origin, I'm not sure. I think the tradition that they are descended from Alan FitzFlaad, the Breton knight, is probably true, but was Alan himself descended from one of the Britons who went to Armorica from Britain during the immediate post-Roman Period?
We need some DF41+ results from the Continent. So far we don't have any, and it looks like Geno 2.0 is a big dud where DF41 is concerned.
Something that sparks my interest is the fact that Alan FitzFlaad, the progenitor of the House of Stewart, was given lands in Shropshire. Since he was evidently DF41+, it makes me wonder if he didn't have some DF41+ followers (if DF41 has any presence among the Bretons) who went with him from Bretagne to Shropshire. It's a stretch, I know, but one of my best 67-marker matches has his y-dna origin in Shropshire, and at least one of my other best 67-marker matches has a surname common in Shropshire.
When you don't know where your immigrant y-dna ancestor came from, you grasp at any potential clues. For me, so far the signs point to Wales and the Shropshire/Wales border area.
A couple of Breton DF41+ results would be helpful.
I belong to the haplotype cluster Mike has designated as 41-1123, with the following characteristic marker values (I have followed Mike in placing things in parentheses to represent "usually, but not always"):
447 less than or equal to 24
534 less than or equal to 14
413a less than or equal to 22
(439 less than or equal to 11)
The "41" in the 41-1123 designation means the cluster has tested DF41+. I say "the cluster has tested" because quite a few of its representatives have in fact tested DF41+ with FTDNA.
I joined the Welsh Patronymics DNA Project on the strength of my Welsh matches and on the fact that my surname does occur in Wales as a patronymic surname. We have our own little category in that project now, which you can see if you scroll down to find the category labeled "R1b Subclade: R1b1a2a1a1b4 (R-L21>D13>DF41)": http://www.familytreedna.com/public/WelshPatronymics/default.aspx?section=yresults
Our cluster also forms a substantial portion of the membership of the R-DF41 and Subclades Project: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-DF41/default.aspx?section=yresults
Here's something Larry Walker posted over at World Families and on the R-DF41 Facebook page:
Within the last couple of days we've had two new L745+ (D41>L744>L745) Stuarts join the R-L21 Plus Project and the R-DF41 and Subclades Project. The interesting thing is that both of them are from Corsica and are descended from a Stuart/Stewart line that went there from Belfast in the 1770s. Their closest y-dna matches are other royal Stewarts/Stuarts with ancestry in Scotland and the USA.
One of them sent me a pdf, in English, of their family story. I am in the process of reading it as I get time. It's interesting and complex, with a certain amount of mystery involving the Jacobite Rebellion.
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