New subclade project: J2a-PF5197 (J-PF5169, J-YSC0000246)

Any discussions about this haplogroup

Moderator: napobo3

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Posts: 271
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:15 pm
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:20 am
Link: J2a-PF5197 (J-PF5169, J-YSC0000246) Haplogroup research

Volunteer Project. Please join if you are:
  • by Geno 2.0: J-PF5169 or J-YSC0000246
  • positive by transfer to FTDNA or SNP test for: PF5197/Z2397, PF4341, YSC0000246, YSC0000253, PF5169, PF5172, PF5176, PF5190, PF5191, PF5207, PF5233, L1064, L250.2, L251.2, PF5174, PF5199, PF5215, PF5216, PF5177, PF5221, PF7421, PF7423, YSC0000250, YSC0000252, YSC0000247, Z2394, Z2395, Z2396, L776
  • Y-DNA matching by haplotype to a kit with positive SNP (see above)
  • member of the following J2a1* (J-L26*) clusters in J-Project or presumed: Cluster *H-L1064, Cluster *D, Cluster *B
The main and first goal is to certify J2a-PF5197, J2a-PF5169 and J2a-YSC0000246 and additionally discovered sub-haplogroup clades for ISOGG (International Society of Genetic Genealogy) Y-DNA Haplogroup J.

Current haplogroup evidence June 2013 (SNPs in Geno 2.0 chip, SNPs available for FTDNA order):
  • PF5197/Z2397, Z2394, Z2395, Z2396, L776 - J2a1a1b (probable new nomenclature by ISOGG)
    • YSC0000246, YSC0000253, PF4341.1 (Cluster *D)
      198631 Khan, N3437 Patel, N5341 Dimitrov, B1620 Albaghdadi, NA20884 GIH-Gujaratis
    • PF5169, PF5172, PF5176, PF5190, PF5191, PF5207, PF5233
      N88317 Yedidia CTS3183.2+ (only by transfer to FTDNA, questionable)
      • L1064, L250.2, L251.2 (Cluster *H)
        N37321 Taylor, Kohl/Yaeger
      • PF5174, PF5199, PF5215, PF5216
        248045 Barela (near to Cluster *B?), N114846 Razack, NA21090 GIH-Gujaratis, PGP141
        • PF5177, PF5221, PF7421, PF7423
          N76290 Higgins
DNA/Admixture Central Europe (Alps, Tyrol, Dolomites, Raetia); Y-DNA J2a-L1064, J2a-L210, R1a-M17, R1b-U106 (L48-); mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects : J2-M172, J2a-PF5197, Alpine DNA, ISOGG Wiki
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Posts: 271
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:15 pm
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:36 pm
Interesting haplotype collection and SNP List - first backup
With known or predicted position, cluster name and link (under construction) to other projects/publication. Underlined kits have joined the project. Last update 9 July 2013.
These kits are invited to join the project. If you have the same surname and origin you may order a Y-DNA12 or better Y-DNA37 test to partecipate.
  • PF5197
    • YSC0000253 (until now Cluster *D in J-Project, J-PF4341 in Geno 2.0)
      • D15 N Arab (PF4341.1+, YSC0000246-, YSC0000253+ by Geno 2.0): 271582●Najd Saudi Arabia, N100355 Sager Kuwait (J),
        Low marker matches: 197522 Tba Jordan (Arab Tribes), 186088 Tay Jordan (Arab Tribes), 219259 Saudi Arabia,
      • YSC0000246
        • D01 Mesopotamia (YSC0000246+): B1620●Kazim/Albaghdadi Iraq, SMGF Matches see D02,
          Low marker matches: FTDNA Bedi,
        • D02 CS Asia (YSC0000246+): 198631●Khan Afghanistan, 194691 Khan Afghanistan, 57963 Gujar Pakistan (J, Timurids),
          Matches: SMGF Pakistan (24/26), SMGF Pakistan (23/26), SMGF Pakistan (22/26), SMGF Markazi Iran (22/26), SMGF Din Pakistan (18/22), SMGF Nepal (21/26), SMGF Pakistan (21/26), SMGF Ud Din Punjab India (21/26), SMGF Pakistan (22/26), SMGF Thailand (19/24), SMGF India (17/22), SMGF India (19/26), SMGF Palestine (16/22), SMGF Thailand (17/24),
          Low marker matches: N76595 Mungur Floreal Mauritius (HEY6Y/JPEWS), FTDNA Sana, FTDNA Sarma,
        • D03 Gujarat (YSC0000246+): N3437●Patel India, no FTDNA/ysearch matches, distant SMGF matches (see D02)
        • D04: 197276 Alnuzhah Saudi Arabia (J2-Arab), SMGF Matches see D02,
        • D05: M7464 Alshamsi (J2-Arab), 183994 Oman,
        • D06: 149554 Tamim Najd Saudi Arabia (J-L250),
        • D0x Low marker matches: Armenia), D11 Bulgar (YSC0000246+): N5341●Cherventsi,
          Matches: SMGF Pakistan (21/26), 2 x SMGF Peru (20/26), SMGF Iran (20/26), SMGF Riggio Italy (20/26),
        • D12 Iberic: 225466 de Villasenor Spain (Galicia, J2),
          Matches: SMGF Pantoja Mexico (25/27), SMGF Jara Munoz Chile (25/27), 2x SMGF Alegria Peralta Peru (24/27),
        • D20 Levantic: M6480 Odeh Palestina (Lebanon-Syria),
          Matches: SMGF Palestine (19/23), SMGF Pakistan (20/27), Madisetty India (20/27),
        • D21 speculative: 253629 Vezdeni Svaneti Georgia, 253357 Vezdeni Svaneti Georgia (see Georgia),
          Low marker matches: FTDNA Pathak, FTDNA Galhotra, D25 Russian Nobility (YSC0000246 ordered): 197150 Syundyukov Russia, 230662 Syundyukov Ukraine, 230427 Syundyukov Russia
          Match: SMGF Syundyukov Russia, Distant matches: SMGF Rahimov Kyrgyzstan (19/27),
        • D30 Quraysh قريش‎: 188770 Quraishi Saudi Arabia (Arab Tribes), N23186 Khoory United Arab Emirates (J2-Arab), M6566 Shareef Saudi Arabia (J, J2-Arab),
          Low marker matches: FTDNA Al-Hashemi, FTDNA El-Arfaoui,
        • Unresearched STRs (YSC0000246+): NA20884▶GIH-Gujaratis India, Castro (FTDNA sequencing YSC0000250+ etc.)
        • Geno 2.0 Our Story Users J-YSC0000246: sesarma Brahmins Andhra Pradesh India, Naiem Arain Punjab India, from2am Kabul Afghanistan
        • DS modal optim. matches SMGF: 22/24 Pakistan, 19/21 Thailand, 17/19 Din Pakistan, 2 x 21/24 Pakistan, 17/20 Palestine, 20/24 Pakistan, 2 x 20/24 Alegria Peralta Peru, 20/24 Ud Din Punjab India, 20/24 Markazi Iran, 20/24 Tehran Iran, 17/21 Thailand, 19/24 Nepal, 16/20 India, 19/24 Ayub/Ismael Punjab Pakistan, 19/24 Jara Munoz Chile, 16/20 Syundyukov Russia, 16/21 Pakistan, 18/24 Pantoja Mexico, 18/24 India,
          Speculative matches: 18/24 England, 16/22 Brazil, 19/24 Deitz/Dietz Pfalz Germany (see here 83514 and 154962 Frady L198+),
          Probaby false matches: 18/24 Al Issa Jordan, 15/20 El Farra Palestine, 18/24 Mountain England, 18/24 Esfahan Iran, 17/23 Mustafa Jordan, 14/19 Kerman Iran, 16/22 El-Agha Palestine,
          False matches: 18/24 Iseroff Lithuania (L24),
        • Dxx Low marker single kits: M6570 Al Eshaq Al Blooshi United Arab Emirates (J2-Arab), 174576 El-Arfaoui Tunisia (J2-Arab), N68809 Sadjadi Iran (J, J2-Arab), N84214 (J, India), FTDNA Bedi, WPX9X Aguilera Mexico, Brahmins South India (Iyers and Iyengars, Sanghamitra's study)
    • PF5169(new project Cluster *Y)
      • Y1 Fertile Crescent: N88317●Yedidia Iran (CTS3183.2?), no FTDNA/ysearch matches,
      • Geno 2.0 Our Story Users J-PF5169 (unknown subclade status / PF5216?): saleemidris Uttar Pradesh India, i_anastasakis Central Crete Greece, Jamesegio Avellino Italy,
      • Geno 2.0 Our Story Users J-PF5172 (unknown position - up or sub of PF5169?): Murray1 Adoption
        L1064 (until now Cluster *H, J-Project)
        • H01 NW.F.Crescent (L1064+): 166314 Maksoudian Lebanon/Syrian?H02 Greek Peloponnes (PF5169 ordered): 259657 Palamedes Greece
        • H03 W.Med English? (PF5169+ L1064+): N37321●Taylor England, 33308 Weeks USA
        • H04 Central European (PF5169 unofficial and ordererd L1064+): 25365 Gattie France, 853 Gatter USA, 5352 Gatter USA, FTDNA Vetterle Germany, FTDNA Jaeger●(Kohl) Germany, E4955 Kaser Austria, SMGF Zanatta Brazil/Italy?, 216 Treviso Italy, ETY_117 East Tyrol Austria, ETY_130 East Tyrol Austria
        • H05 French (L1064+): 122074 Galarneau/Gardner France
          Low marker matches: XHV2R Bennett
        • H06 W.Med Iberic (L1064+): 134080 Costa Portugal, SMGF Perez Mexico, SMGF Lugers Germany, KBEJN Rodriguez Spain
        • H07 W.Med Italic?: N65610 Santen USA, FTDNA Rega Italy, FTDNA Tolva Italy
        • H08 NE.Arab Rabi'ah ربيعة‎ (Bakr ibn Wa'il بنو بكر بن وائل, Anizzah عنزة) (L1064+): M7424 Al-Saleh Kuwait, M7436 Al-Ajeel Al-Askar Kuwait, M5038 O Riyadh Saudi Arabia, 212810 K Riyadh Saudi Arabia, 246460 Salm255 Saudi Arabia, 218731 T Riyadh Saudi Arabia, 218738 T Riyadh Saudi Arabia, 218740 T Riyadh Saudi Arabia, 218735 T Riyadh Saudi Arabia, 218736 T Riyadh Saudi Arabia, M5007 Ali A.A. Riyadh Saudi Arabia, 218730 T Riyadh Saudi Arabia, 218732 T Riyadh Saudi Arabia, 218733 T Riyadh Saudi Arabia, 199120 T Riyadh Saudi Arabia, 185751 M Riyadh Saudi Arabia,218734 T Riyadh Saudi Arabia,218739 T Riyadh Saudi Arabia,218737 T Riyadh Saudi Arabia,M6447 S Kuwait, 183092 Al Enezi Saudi Arabia, 183096 Eneza Saudi Arabia, 186288, M7990 آل أبو رباع (Al Abu Rabbaa), 279345 Binsaleh, 183093 Saudi Arabia, 3S23K Shihab Ahmad
        • H09 NW.F.Crescent: 159300 Namour Lebanon, 159297 Fadel Lebanon, SMGF Thomaz Syria, SMGF Joss Cameroon
          Low marker matches: FTDNA Abidavid, FTDNA Nassr
        • H10 E Arab: M6425 Zaabi Abdullah (Al Zaabi) United Arab Emirates
        • H11 Palestine: SMGF Figawi n=8 Palestine
        • H50 speculative: SMGF Ullah Pakistan
        • H51 speculative: SMGF Lothrop USA
        • H52 speculative: SMGF Malayer Iran H53 speculative: SMGF Azerbaijan
        • H54 speculative: 181801 Pelan Northern Ireland
        • Hxx Low marker single kits: WFA8A Potenza
        PF5216 (possibly Cluster *B, J-Project)
        • B01 Latino-Iberic (PF5169+ PF5216+): 248045●Barela Spain (near to Cluster *B?), 197439 Varela Spain, 97164 Mireles Spain, 57110 Lucero Spain, 145866 Berro Spain, 91561 da Silva Netherlands
        • B02 speculative: 216152 Fadhl Saudi Arabia
        • B03 Mesopotamia speculative: M8041 Aldosari Kuwait, 154282 Al Basrawi Iraq, 184022 A Syria, 204382 Ahmed
        • B10 Gujarat (PF5169+ PF5216+): NA21090 GIH-Gujaratis
          Unknown STRs (PF5169+ PF5216+): N114846 Razack India, PGP141 US?
          PF5221 (new project Cluster *Z)
          • Z1 Med-Atlantic (PF5169+ PF5216+ PF5221+): N76290●Higgins USA, 64880 Cooke England, 160687 Cisco, 160516 Cisco, 47748 Cook USA, 36657 Cook USA, 86284 Cooke England,
          • Z2 predicted: N88265 Enein
          • Z3 Greco-Italian predicted: 169504 Italy, N33024 Rousos Greece
          • Z4 speculative: 220041 Jennings, FTDNA Laguna
          • Unknown STRs (PF5169+ PF5216+ PF5221+): Sardinian sample/s (Francalacci, Tofanelli et al.)
SNP List
Last update: 8 July 2013
Name; mutation; RefSNP; b36 Y-position; b37/hg19 Y-position; FTDNA-tests (+/total); Notes
L1064; T>C; -; 6813384; 6753384; XXX; nearby to L250 and L251
L250; XXX;-; XXX; XXX; XXX; recurrent in E1b-V13 and J2a-M67! - rather unreliable;
L251; XXX; -; XXX; XXX; XXX; recurrent in E1b-V13 and J2a-M67! - rather unreliable;
PF4341; XXX; -; XXX; XXX; XXX; recurrent in ;
PF5169; G>C (ymap/sequence) / C>G (Geno2); -; 7288093; 7228093; 0/2; -;
PF5197/Z2397; G>A; -; 17578131; 19068737; XXX; -;
DNA/Admixture Central Europe (Alps, Tyrol, Dolomites, Raetia); Y-DNA J2a-L1064, J2a-L210, R1a-M17, R1b-U106 (L48-); mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects : J2-M172, J2a-PF5197, Alpine DNA, ISOGG Wiki
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Posts: 271
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:15 pm
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:50 am
Found in FG-P9ZTZ L1064+ and GoNLx2 L198+:
FGC16081 (15172037 G>A), FGC16096 (16764114 A>T), FGC16064, FGC16105.1/2?, FGC16141, FGC16152
DNA/Admixture Central Europe (Alps, Tyrol, Dolomites, Raetia); Y-DNA J2a-L1064, J2a-L210, R1a-M17, R1b-U106 (L48-); mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects : J2-M172, J2a-PF5197, Alpine DNA, ISOGG Wiki

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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
R- S12460 (KV7Y2)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:51 am
Hi Chris R., you are doing a good work about this haplogroup, but, looking at your tree:
PF5197/Z2397, (probably new J2a1a1a2)
a : YSC0000253, PF4341.1/3, Z6067, Z6068, Z6069, Z6070, Z6071, Z6072, Z6073, Z6074, Z6075 (Cluster *D)
271582 Najd, HG03615 BEB-Bengali,
a1 : YSC0000246, Z6076, Z6077, Z6078, Z6079, Z6080, Z6081
198631 Khan, N3437 Patel, N5341 Dimitrov, B1620 Albaghdadi, NA20884 GIH-Gujaratis, HG03660 & HG03021 PJL-Punjabi,
b : PF5172, PF5190, PF5233
N115753 Melito

why do you think that the origin is in the Fertile Crescent and not Northwards if the oldest subclades are in India and in Italy?

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