J-M410 subclades and clusters overview

Any discussions about this haplogroup

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:14 am
With Geno 2.0 results we have the possibility to much better understand the structure sub of M410. You can use this thread to discuss instead of J-L26 J2a1/J2a3/J2a4 subclades SNP discoveries news info
Open Access (CC-BY) publication (updated regularly):
http://figshare.com/articles/J2a_M410_s ... iew/106387
Overview of the phylogeny sub of J2a-M410 as researched by citizen scientist projects: FTDNA Projects (SNP results), Genographic Project Geno 2.0, Facebook J2 group, Forums, etc.

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v1.3 Update 7 Feb. 2013

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Last edited by ChrisR on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:25 am, edited 4 times in total.
DNA/Admixture Central Europe (Alps, Tyrol, Dolomites, Raetia); Y-DNA J2a-L1064, J2a-L210, R1a-M17, R1b-U106 (L48-); mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects : J2-M172, J2a-PF5197, Alpine DNA, ISOGG Wiki
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:35 pm
v1.1: 9 Jan. 2013
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DNA/Admixture Central Europe (Alps, Tyrol, Dolomites, Raetia); Y-DNA J2a-L1064, J2a-L210, R1a-M17, R1b-U106 (L48-); mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects : J2-M172, J2a-PF5197, Alpine DNA, ISOGG Wiki
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Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:15 pm
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:39 pm
v1.2 Update 11 Jan. 2013: Cluster *H is Z2221+
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DNA/Admixture Central Europe (Alps, Tyrol, Dolomites, Raetia); Y-DNA J2a-L1064, J2a-L210, R1a-M17, R1b-U106 (L48-); mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects : J2-M172, J2a-PF5197, Alpine DNA, ISOGG Wiki

Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:03 pm

YDNA:
J-L556
MtDNA:
H5c2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:41 pm
Congratulations, Chris!

So, L1064 and Cluster D are downstream of Z2221/PF5160, and probably L198 is too.

P.S.
Please, move kit 90309 from "J2a3i Possible or Predicted", it drives me crazy.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:02 pm
JaG wrote:So, L1064 and Cluster D are downstream of Z2221/PF5160, and probably L198 is too.

Not so sure about that anymore: *H-L1064, L198 and M47 was much more near to M67 then L24 in my STR-calculations. I saw no other calculations predicting *H-L1064 to be nearer to L24 then to M67.

I will ask Bonnie about kit 90309. I'm currently not moving kits outside my cluster, especially if they belong to "Bonnie's paternal line".
Last edited by ChrisR on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DNA/Admixture Central Europe (Alps, Tyrol, Dolomites, Raetia); Y-DNA J2a-L1064, J2a-L210, R1a-M17, R1b-U106 (L48-); mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects : J2-M172, J2a-PF5197, Alpine DNA, ISOGG Wiki
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Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:26 pm
Location: USA
YDNA:
J2a1i (father)
MtDNA:
I1a1b
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:14 pm
Please, move kit 90309 from "J2a3i Possible or Predicted", it drives me crazy.


OK, JaG, where do you want me to put him?

He clusters near L198+ in a lot of analyses. If you're so concerned about him, why don't you get him to order some SNP tests? ;)

Bonnie
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Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:26 pm
Location: USA
YDNA:
J2a1i (father)
MtDNA:
I1a1b
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:16 pm
So, L1064 and Cluster D are downstream of Z2221/PF5160, and probably L198 is too.


I will be extremely surprised if L198 is downstream of Z2221. It has clustered very closely with M67 for ages. Marko Heinila's trees, for example, show it just outside M67. Why do you think it would go with L1064?

Bonnie
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Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:26 pm
Location: USA
YDNA:
J2a1i (father)
MtDNA:
I1a1b
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:36 pm
OK, I've put kit 90309 in the group, "J2a3 subclade unknown, NEED SNP TESTS!! Geno 2.0 recommended!" His closest (distant, 17/67) matches in GD are in M67, such as 129384. Hope this is more satisfactory.

Bonnie

Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:03 pm

YDNA:
J-L556
MtDNA:
H5c2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:57 pm
Thanks for your replies. Now I've finally realized where did our disagreements come from.

I don't know how results of the last 3 months will alter my analysis, but up to last October I consistently got L1064, L198, Cluster D and Cluster B (and some other kits) on the same stem of L26, albeit in different configurations.

Regarding kit 90309, I'm sure it's M67+, so that ordering M67 test seems redundant to me. Also I suspect that in the past the kit's owner anonymously asked me about his classification at Semargl.me, and I answered the same. Of course, his Geno 2.0 test would be of great value.

I already did one redundant SNP test for myself (L236), just to get an instant obvious result, but even it didn't help to remove L236 from the draft tree. I prefer to recommend STR upgrades over blind tests of single SNPs.

This is just my humble opinion.

Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:03 pm

YDNA:
J-L556
MtDNA:
H5c2
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:00 pm
Chris,

one of the two L383+ results belongs to the L687+ person (kit N40943, WTY). Kit 177694 (WTY: L581+, L582+, P279+, M340+) is L383-. I don't who is the first L383+.

Jan
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