Brandnew Study Reveals the Indian origins of the Roma

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Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:00 pm

YDNA:
J1-L858
MtDNA:
HV1a'b'c
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:08 pm
The Phylogeography of Y-Chromosome Haplogroup H1a1a-M82 Reveals the Likely Indian Origin of the European Romani Populations

Abstract:

Linguistic and genetic studies on Roma populations inhabited in Europe have unequivocally traced these populations to the Indian subcontinent. However, the exact parental population group and time of the out-of-India dispersal have remained disputed. In the absence of archaeological records and with only scanty historical documentation of the Roma, comparative linguistic studies were the first to identify their Indian origin. Recently, molecular studies on the basis of disease-causing mutations and haploid DNA markers (i.e. mtDNA and Y-chromosome) supported the linguistic view. The presence of Indian-specific Y-chromosome haplogroup H1a1a-M82 and mtDNA haplogroups M5a1, M18 and M35b among Roma has corroborated that their South Asian origins and later admixture with Near Eastern and European populations. However, previous studies have left unanswered questions about the exact parental population groups in South Asia. Here we present a detailed phylogeographical study of Y-chromosomal haplogroup H1a1a-M82 in a data set of more than 10,000 global samples to discern a more precise ancestral source of European Romani populations. The phylogeographical patterns and diversity estimates indicate an early origin of this haplogroup in the Indian subcontinent and its further expansion to other regions. Tellingly, the short tandem repeat (STR) based network of H1a1a-M82 lineages displayed the closest connection of Romani haplotypes with the traditional scheduled caste and scheduled tribe population groups of northwestern India.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048477?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+plosone%2FComputationalBiology+%28PLoS+ONE+Alerts%3A+Computational+Biology%29
Paternal: J1-L858 (Z643+ P58+ L858+ L620+ L572+ L147.1+ L817+ Z644- Z642- Z641- Z640- M369- M368- M367- L93- L92- L897- L859- L829- L65.2- L616- L615- L585- L222.2- L174- L1279- L1253- YSC0000076-)
FTDNA Kit: E13058, Full Genomes Kit: FG1014
Maternal: HV1a'b'c
Father's Maternal: T1*
Mother's Paternal: R1b-Z142 (Z49+ Z142+ L2+ Z367- M228.2- L562- L553- L552- L21- L20- L196- L193-)
FTDNA Kit: E14371
User avatar
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:00 pm

YDNA:
J1-L858
MtDNA:
HV1a'b'c
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:14 pm
One of the conclusions: the Indian Doma (a scheduled tribe) are the most likely ancestors of the European Roma.

Another finding individuates their most likely migration path to Europe via the Brushaski territory close Gilgit in Northern Pakistan, the Southern Caspian shore, Southern Ossetia and Armenia, the Southern Black Sea shore.
Paternal: J1-L858 (Z643+ P58+ L858+ L620+ L572+ L147.1+ L817+ Z644- Z642- Z641- Z640- M369- M368- M367- L93- L92- L897- L859- L829- L65.2- L616- L615- L585- L222.2- L174- L1279- L1253- YSC0000076-)
FTDNA Kit: E13058, Full Genomes Kit: FG1014
Maternal: HV1a'b'c
Father's Maternal: T1*
Mother's Paternal: R1b-Z142 (Z49+ Z142+ L2+ Z367- M228.2- L562- L553- L552- L21- L20- L196- L193-)
FTDNA Kit: E14371

Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:22 pm

YDNA:
H1a
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:45 pm
One of the associates contacted from that study me telling me that they found my independent study most interesting and they will start testing for marker 425 in both their South Asian and Romany samples. That is pretty exciting I think, that because of my independent study they are going to start testing for this specific marker in both populatons and once that is complete I am certain a new paper will be written based off of my work.

Here is exactly what I was told by the associate of that study.

" Unfortunately, we have not tested marker 425 either in any of our South
Asian samples or Romani samples. However, it would be very interesting
to type it in some of the closest representatives groups. We'll do that
and inform you about the development.

Moreover, we are sequencing some of the Y chromosomes of Roma H1a1a-M82
to find out the downstream SNP to narrow down the phylogeny."

That to me is double good news! The team is going to start testing for marker 425 and are digging deeper in to the downstream SNP on the Romany H1a1a.
I sent the team my FTDNA Deep Clade SNP results which was done back in 2008, which is obviously outdated today but felt it was important for them to see what FTDNA had to say on the matter back in 2008 when I got tested.

I have my doubts they will find any South Asian H1a* men with the 425 = 0 null marker mutation, but if anyone stands a chance to find it in the South Asian populations they do! I have no doubts all their Romany H1a samples will carry this null mutation, but on the rare chance that they are able to identify this null mutation in the South Asian population would be very exciting if they were able to identify any South Asian population carrying this null mutation because they would clearly be the direct link to the Romany.

What end conclusions they will come up with I can't guess, but they now know to be looking for this specific marker in both populations thanks to my work. I hope to work closely with Dr. Thangaraj and the team and hope our combined effort finds new clues.
User avatar
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:00 pm

YDNA:
J1-L858
MtDNA:
HV1a'b'c
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:10 pm
Donald Locke wrote:One of the associates contacted from that study me telling me that they found my independent study most interesting and they will start testing for marker 425 in both their South Asian and Romany samples. That is pretty exciting I think, that because of my independent study they are going to start testing for this specific marker in both populatons and once that is complete I am certain a new paper will be written based off of my work.

Here is exactly what I was told by the associate of that study.

" Unfortunately, we have not tested marker 425 either in any of our South
Asian samples or Romani samples. However, it would be very interesting
to type it in some of the closest representatives groups. We'll do that
and inform you about the development.

Moreover, we are sequencing some of the Y chromosomes of Roma H1a1a-M82
to find out the downstream SNP to narrow down the phylogeny."

That to me is double good news! The team is going to start testing for marker 425 and are digging deeper in to the downstream SNP on the Romany H1a1a.
I sent the team my FTDNA Deep Clade SNP results which was done back in 2008, which is obviously outdated today but felt it was important for them to see what FTDNA had to say on the matter back in 2008 when I got tested.

I have my doubts they will find any South Asian H1a* men with the 425 = 0 null marker mutation, but if anyone stands a chance to find it in the South Asian populations they do! I have no doubts all their Romany H1a samples will carry this null mutation, but on the rare chance that they are able to identify this null mutation in the South Asian population would be very exciting if they were able to identify any South Asian population carrying this null mutation because they would clearly be the direct link to the Romany.

What end conclusions they will come up with I can't guess, but they now know to be looking for this specific marker in both populations thanks to my work. I hope to work closely with Dr. Thangaraj and the team and hope our combined effort finds new clues.


Good for your research project, Donald, and very good for Romani DNA research in general! :)
Paternal: J1-L858 (Z643+ P58+ L858+ L620+ L572+ L147.1+ L817+ Z644- Z642- Z641- Z640- M369- M368- M367- L93- L92- L897- L859- L829- L65.2- L616- L615- L585- L222.2- L174- L1279- L1253- YSC0000076-)
FTDNA Kit: E13058, Full Genomes Kit: FG1014
Maternal: HV1a'b'c
Father's Maternal: T1*
Mother's Paternal: R1b-Z142 (Z49+ Z142+ L2+ Z367- M228.2- L562- L553- L552- L21- L20- L196- L193-)
FTDNA Kit: E14371

Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:22 pm

YDNA:
H1a
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:15 am
I am VERY excited right now! I just got word from the researchers in India that if they can confirm my research and that research leads in to a new genetic study on the Romany, that I will be named as a coauthor of that study!

I very much look forward to seeing what their team can find out and I really hope it leads to some new clues and new conclusions of Romany origins.

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