Clarification of Y-DNA Haplogroup Q1b Phylogenetic Structure

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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:37 pm
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:33 pm
Clarification of Y-DNA Haplogroup Q1b Phylogenetic Structure Based on Y-Chromosome Full Sequencing
Vladimir Gurianov, Dmitry Adamov, Vladimir Tagankin, Leon Kull

The recent growth of the Y-chromosome full sequencing data sets made it possible to arrange a full-scale update of Q1b haplogroup phylogenetic structure (Q-L275). The article contains a detailed description of Q-Y2200 and Q-YP745 branches aswell as a number of other subclades downstream to Q-L275 including their dating as per the method described in the article of Adamov et al. 2015. We also made an effort of inter-discipline review of data from the field of population genetics, archaeology, and comparative linguistics; formalized major problems arisen upon delivering this analysis, and offered a few hypotheses on migration paths of the groups comprising representatives of different Q1b subclades.


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yDNA: Q1b1a (L245+ L315- L272-)
mtDNA: J1c2*
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Ex oriente lux

Posts: 2348
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:15 am
Шад wrote:Clarification of Y-DNA Haplogroup Q1b Phylogenetic Structure Based on Y-Chromosome Full Sequencing
Vladimir Gurianov, Dmitry Adamov, Vladimir Tagankin, Leon Kull

The recent growth of the Y-chromosome full sequencing data sets made it possible to arrange a full-scale update of Q1b haplogroup phylogenetic structure (Q-L275). The article contains a detailed description of Q-Y2200 and Q-YP745 branches aswell as a number of other subclades downstream to Q-L275 including their dating as per the method described in the article of Adamov et al. 2015. We also made an effort of inter-discipline review of data from the field of population genetics, archaeology, and comparative linguistics; formalized major problems arisen upon delivering this analysis, and offered a few hypotheses on migration paths of the groups comprising representatives of different Q1b subclades.


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From the paper: "Q-YP745, in its turn, splits into two subclades:
Q-YP1095 (the representatives of this
subclade reside in North Africa and Western
Europe) and Q-YP1226 (geographically confined
to Western Asia).
Additionally, basing on STR markers allelic
values, the branch Q-YP745 has been shown
to present stable combinations of allelic values:
DYF395S1=15-17 and DYF389=13-2817
This subclade was formed circa 4 thousand
years ago at the turn of the 2nd/3rd millennium
BCE.
Therefore, we did not find the direct link
between Jewish clusters Q-YP1236 (North Africa)
and Q-Y2200 (Ashkenazi). Another possible
explanation of this situation refers to the
period of primary ethnogenesis at the territory
of the ancient Canaan. Since Q-YP1236 is absent
among European Jews and Q-Y2200 is not revealed by the Jews from North Africa,
the first hypothesis shall prevail. Nevertheless,
both branches apparently have common genesis
connected with Western Asia; Q-YP1236
distribution may be explained by active migration
of the Phoenicians in the Mediterranean
Region".
But, once more, Ashkenazi Jews descend from an unique and recent ancestor: it seems that these people are from an unique ancestor of 1550ya. It isn't demonstrated that the Italian sample (95307) had a Jewish origin, and the other linked sample (237760) comes from very conservative regions of Italy, which get other very old samples of hg. Q as has been demonstrated in the last paper of Robino et al. Don't you think that your analysis would have been different if you took into account also other Italians beyond Biondo?
237760 Luigi D'Orazio, b.a. 1770 Serramonacesca, Italy Italy Q-L245
13 21 13 10 13-16 12 12 12 13 15 30 17 9-10 11 11 25 14 19 29 14-15-15-16 10 9 19-19 15 14 17 16 34-37 12 11 11 8 15-17 8 10 10 8 9 11 0 22-22 17 11 12 12 17 9 12 22 16 14 12 11 13 10 12 13 12
N97445 Italy Q-M242
13 22 13 10 14-16 12 12 13 13 15 29
95307 Biondo (Sicily, Italy) Italy Q-L245
13 22 13 10 15-17 12 12 12 13 15 29 16 9-9 11 11 25 14 19 30 14-15-16-16 10 9 19-19 16 14 17 15 33-38 12 11 11 8 15-17 8 10 10 8 12 11 0 22-22 16 11 12 12 18 8 12 23 16 14 12 11 13 10 12 13 13
N20234 Coccoluto; ; Gaeta, Italy Italy Q-M25
13 22 14 10 16-18 12 10 11 14 17 31
136212 Italy Q-M242
13 22 14 10 17-18 12 10 12 13 16 29

Posts: 2348
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:15 pm
Q-Y2225 FGC1934/Y2196 * FGC1899/Y2224 * FGC1906/Y2219... 10 SNPs formed 3500 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybp
Q-Y2225*
Q-L272.1 L272.3/L272.2/L272.1/L272
id:YF01454 ITA
Q-Y2200 FGC1910/Y2216 * FGC1909/Y2218 * FGC7663... 12 SNPs formed 2500 ybp, TMRCA 1550 ybp
Q-Y2200*
Q-Y2197 FGC1933/Y2197 * FGC1932/Y2198 formed 1550 ybp, TMRCA 1200 ybp
Q-Y2197*
Q-Y2750 Y3026/FGC4837 * FGC4846/Y2750 * Y3028/FGC4845... 6 SNPs
id:YF01375 UKR
Q-Y2780 FGC1930/Y2781 * FGC1920/Y2754 * FGC1924/Y2780 formed 1200 ybp, TMRCA 650 ybp
id:YF01378 UKR
id:YF02142 AUT
Q-YP1004 YP1004 * YP1006 * YP1007... 1 SNPs formed 1200 ybp, TMRCA 700 ybp
id:YF01758 POL
id:YF02440
Q-YP1003 YP1003 formed 1550 ybp, TMRCA 1550 ybp
Q-YP1003*
id:YF03148 new
Q-YP1071 YP1071 formed 1550 ybp, TMRCA 1300 ybp
Q-YP1071*
Q-YP1010 YP1011 * YP1008 * YP1010 formed 1300 ybp, TMRCA 1150 ybp
Q-YP1010*
id:YF02501
Q-YP1009 Y8394 * YP1009 formed 1150 ybp, TMRCA 650 ybp
id:YF02210
id:YF02331
Q-YP1035 YP1035 * YP1036
id:YF02461

Q-YP740 YP738 * YP741 * YP731... 12 SNPs
id:YF02356
------------------------------------------------------------
As only 1 SNP (L272) separates the Italian samples from the Ashkenazi ones under Y2225, and as the sister clade YP740 is of western European diffusion, don't you think that it is simpler to think that the ancestor of the Ashkenazi subclade Y2200 was of Western European origin? This is evident also if we consider only these two Italian Q-L272 (237760 and 95307) as to their haplotypes, which have more variance as to the Ashkenazi haplotypes which presuppose (very likely) an origin in Italy. That these haplotypes may have come from Western Asia thousands of years before is possible, but that doesn't falsify what I have said above and doesn't link those haplotypes with a "primary ethnogenesis at the territory of the ancient Canaan" (page 94).

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