H* from the Italian Refugium


Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:23 am
Sample Id: MC21032 NCBI Id: JN573371
Unresolved Options: H1aj;H3-T16189C!;
Private Mutations: [A Personal or Private Mutation is a marker (SNP) you have that is not part of the defining markers list for this haplogroup.] T4002C; C4029T; T4232C; T4907C; T6975C; G9921A; C12378T; A14133G; A16041G; C16287T; G16526A;
Topologically Missing: [A 'Missing' Mutation is a marker (SNP) that is part of the defining list of markers for this haplogroup that you do not have.] C16189T(L2'3'4'6);
Country:
Geography:
Ancestry:
Reference: FamilyTreeDNA
Contact:

Now we do know. My bet is won. This mt haplotype H, with 12 extra mutations, and for what I began my collaboration with the interested person and with Ian Logan, is Italian. Of course thanks to 23andMe too, I suggested to do. It is also a marvelous history of the Italian migration. Her father was full blooded Italian and had 73 first cousins. Now we know that also her mother is full blooded Italian and the descendants of these people are hundreds now. This person, who don't speak Italian but that from her 18th year is searching for her ancestry, is so Italian like me, from a genetic point of view, after more than a century that her ancestors live in America.
And this mtDNA H is another tessera I bring to my theory of the Italian Refugium.

Posts: 2130
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:04 pm
A 28,000 Years Old Cro-Magnon mtDNA Sequence Differs from All Potentially Contaminating Modern Sequences

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchArt ... ne.0002700

"In this study we had the unique opportunity to characterize genetically a Cro-Magnoid individual, Paglicci 23, whose tafonomic history is perfectly known. As a consequence, we could monitor all possible contaminations from the individuals who manipulated the sample. In this way, testing for contamination meant comparing the sequence obtained from the Paglicci 23 bones with the sequences of all modern people who touched them, and not with generic and hard-to define modern sequences. We showed that: (i) the mitochondrial sequence inferred from the analysis of the Paglicci 23 mtDNA hypervariable region I (HVR I) cannot possibly be due to contamination by anybody who manipulated the sample ever since its discovery in 2003, and (2) this 28,000 years old sequence is still common in Europe, and is the Cambridge reference sequence (CRS)."

Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:12 am
Dartraighe, I have just published this on Facebook, answering Richard Rocca and Sylvain Chamoux:

Gioiello Tognoni Of course this is possible: in the Roman Empire all became "Romans" and spoke Latin, in fact "French" is a Latin language like Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian and many minor languages and dialects, so I have said many times in the past that to-day 700,000,000 people speak "Latin" whereas only 10,000,000 speak Greek (this for Dienekes and its useless nationalism), not counting that the same English is for the 55% of its vocabulary from Latin (and of course Latin have many words from Greek and other languages). I think that the same happened for our genes. What is useless I think is to think that Northern Italians are "Celt" for some invasion that Celts did to it (not counting that many peoples were annihilated by Romans like the Bohis and probably to search for them near Bononia/Bologna is useless, better perhaps to search for them in Czech Republik). Or to think that Ligurians were "Celt" and not an Indo-European people who lived in Northern Italy and Southern France, not counting that probably Celts and Latins came out from the same source.
When my fight began, at the time of David Faux, the R-U152 found in Italy were "Celt": and this isn't true, like the same Rocca does know now, if he finds the closest to him so far only in "Italians" and he has convinced himself that his ancestors for the Y are in "Italy" at least from 4500 years. He says now that SNPs are useless, but are they to use them, after that I won my fight about the use of the STRs: go and see who said that since 7 years ago when all the theories of those who ban me from all the forums were based only on dates got from the STRs counting. My theories are based on much more: not only genetics, but also history, archaeology, linguistics etc. and I am waiting willing for the aDNA, even though my enemies deny also the evidence, as the origin of mt H in Europe and not in Middle East: for understanding the origin of one of the most varied H found so far of an American adopted I spent more than three years of researches and finally her father with 73 first cousins and lastly also her mother have been found, all full blooded Italians. Ask Ian Logan for knowing all that.
---------------------------------------
On Anthrogenica, beyond Jean Lohizun, perhaps the only parasar is thinking that.

Posts: 2130
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:16 am
Uniparental Genetic Structure and Population History of Sicily and Southern Italy

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4005757/

"Due to their strategic geographic location between three different continents, Sicily and Southern Italy have long represented a major Mediterranean crossroad where different peoples and cultures came together over time. However, its multi-layered history of migration pathways and cultural exchanges, has made the reconstruction of its genetic history and population structure extremely controversial and widely debated. To address this debate, we surveyed the genetic variability of 326 accurately selected individuals from 8 different provinces of Sicily and Southern Italy, through a comprehensive evaluation of both Y-chromosome and mtDNA genomes. The main goal was to investigate the structuring of maternal and paternal genetic pools within Sicily and Southern Italy, and to examine their degrees of interaction with other Mediterranean populations. Our findings show high levels of within-population variability, coupled with the lack of significant genetic sub-structures both within Sicily, as well as between Sicily and Southern Italy. When Sicilian and Southern Italian populations were contextualized within the Euro-Mediterranean genetic space, we observed different historical dynamics for maternal and paternal inheritances. Y-chromosome results highlight a significant genetic differentiation between the North-Western and South-Eastern part of the Mediterranean, the Italian Peninsula occupying an intermediate position therein. In particular, Sicily and Southern Italy reveal a shared paternal genetic background with the Balkan Peninsula and the time estimates of main Y-chromosome lineages signal paternal genetic traces of Neolithic and post-Neolithic migration events. On the contrary, despite showing some correspondence with its paternal counterpart, mtDNA reveals a substantially homogeneous genetic landscape, which may reflect older population events or different demographic dynamics between males and females. Overall, both uniparental genetic structures and TMRCA estimates confirm the role of Sicily and Southern Italy as an ancient Mediterranean melting pot for genes and cultures."

Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:15 pm
I wrote this letter on Worldfamilies but perhaps also elsewhere:

What to say about the last paper of Sarno et al., An Ancient Mediterranean Melting Pot: investigating the Uniparental Genetic Structure and Population History of Sicily and Southern Italy, PLoS ONE, 2014, which is linked to the previous paper of Boattini et al., and like under the name of Boattini we know these papers?
On Anthrogenica someone said to me that he would have believed to my theory of the "Italian Refugium" when I had published it on a peer reviewed paper, and this is the thought also of the professional geneticists, but I have written about this thousands of letters on many fora, and even though many are deleted, of course by whom dislike my theories, they are running on the web yet.
Which is the meaning of this paper? Let us say it from the authors: "Sicilian genetic diversity revealed to be not structured along the east-west axis of the island; on the contrary both maternal and paternal genetic markers suggest an homogeneous genetic composition both within Sicily, as well as between Sicily and Southern Italy. These results are consistent with the largely shared genetic histories of the Southern Italian populations, and reflect their historical and archaeological role as a major Mediterranean ‘melting pot’ where different peoples and cultures came together over time, albeit with different contributes depending from the source area" (p.11).
What is new in this? That previous researches, that pointed out a difference between Western and Eastern Sicily are disproved, but Boattini confirms his previous research of a difference within Italy, between a North-Western and a South-Eastern part. Which would be the cause: that the Y hg of Sicily would be of Balkan and Levantine origin (little the contribute of North Africa), whereas the North-Western one would be linked to Western Mediterranean countries? But who did come from where?
The analysis is a lot confused, because this presupposed origin from the Balkans and Levant are disproved by other calculations of the MRCA of these haplogroups:
"However, the estimated age for Sicilian and Southern-Italian J1 haplotypes refers to the end of the Bronze Age (3261 +/- 1345 YBP), thus suggesting more ancient contributions
from the East" (p.9); "However, sub-lineages of haplogroup J2 have been also associated with the Neolithic colonization of mainland Greece, Crete and Southern Italy [52], and our TMRCA estimates for J2-subhaplogroups (ranging from 3271 +/- 1157 YBP to 3767 +/- 1332 YBP) cannot exclude an earlier arrival of at least some of the J2 chromosomes in Sicily and Southern-Italy during Neolithic times" (p.9).
I have to say that I have done a long struggle in favor of this from years, practically against all. And what to say about the calculation done by the authors? I have demonstrated from years that this calculation was wrong (also this practically against all, even though Zhivotowsky used another mutation rate all the hobbyists were against) for my golden principles (mutations happen around the modal, there is a convergence to the modal as time passes, sometime a mutation goes for the tangent, rarely there are multistep mutations). Now the Big Y and Full Genome results are demonstrating that my ideas were right. And what to say about the fact that the authors choose for their calculation only 8 markers after that we have had for years the flaw of the "Cohen Modal Haplotype"?
No one word about what is behind the researches that are done: who does fund them, which interests, political and religious, are behind them? I have spoken a lot, at my risk, also about this. Now it seems that for Sarno/Boattini the Levantine origin of the Sicilian and Southern Italian gene pool stands up. Why?
And didn't realize Sarno/Boattini that one of their haplotypes is an R-L277? Why did they use the SNP M18 and not V88? Did they think that R-V88 wasn't in Italy but only M18? This is what others want Italians think, but I demonstrated that Marchesi, tested by FTDNA like M269, is actually V88. I wrote a letter to Scozzari/Cruciani years ago where I hypothesized that also R-V88 came from the Italian (or Iberian) refugium, and their tested M343 (x M269, M18) is just an R-V88. And all the proofs I carried in these years in favor of R1b1-L389+, R-M269 with the PF SNPs, R-L23 of all the subclades (L277, PF7580, Z2110), R-L51 from the Italian Refugium?
Fortunately that they recognized that there was an Italian Refugium of the mtDNA (beginning from hg. HV, but I demonstrated it also for its ancestor R0a'b through many subclades present in Italy and Tuscany), and it isn't true that only for U5b3 it has been demonstrated, only because that paper was written by scholars.
I apologize with Sarno/Boattini if in the past I broke in pieces many papers of their colleagues. I have to say that they seem to me more serious, and I didn't find in their papers the great mistakes I found in others. But I have to say that the genetics of populations is done now by the said hobbyists: they pay for their tests and the last reliable trees are done by them, also through Big Y and Full Genome, whereas scholars are waiting for their researches to get Geno 2.0 which couldn't say any interesting now, and not many of them had the funds that Francalacci had for his PF SNPs.
I understand that they are now desperate not wives but scholars, but this shouldn't permit them to ignore the researches of others, even though not published on peer reviews (but how many of them are actually reliable?) and not to do what happened to Dienekes Pontikos and to who stole his method: the hidings of the hobbyists hurt.

KInd Regards, Gioiello Tognoni (Gioiello, Maliclavelli, Rathna, Claire)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 05:58:15 AM by Maliclavelli »

Posts: 2130
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:58 pm
Do you know Catania? U106 is 11.5% of males there.
User avatar
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:19 am
Location: Family Line Veneto ( italy ) since ~1600
YDNA:
T1a2-Z19945
MtDNA:
H95a
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:56 pm
Another H95a found in North-East italy ...........in Tramonti di Sopra kit# 395959

this makes H95a with 2 x NE Italians and 1 x Swedish

h95 with 1 x north italian and 1 x south italian

conclusion of H95/a must be its a north-italian/alpine marker
Last edited by stoeni on Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fathers mtdna - T2b17 ...back to 1860 Bucciol line
Grandfathers mtdna - T1a1e ...back to 1820 Mestriner line
Sons Mtdna - K1a4 ....back to 1840 Tesser line
Maternal grandfather ydna - Ild-P109

Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:36 pm
These are the nicknames on Eurogenes blog that Marnie Dunsmore gave me.
1. Dienekes and Helgenes50: Manoulis Kellis at the Broad Institute
2. Nirjhar007, Krefter, rozenfag, Simon_W, Srkz, Skilur, Annie Mouse, Romulus, capra internetensis – Jean-Jacques Hublin
3. Mike Thomas – Pinhasi
4. Grey – Chris Stringer
5. Colin Welling – Colin Renfrew
I didn’t agree about some of them, because I am sure they are other people. She spoke also of Balaji [David Reich blogs on eurogenes as Balaji]. I don’t know if that is true, anyway very likely the plot against my theories is coming at its end:
From Eurogenes blog:
Balaji has left a new comment on the post "Ancient genomes from Ireland point to population u...":
The Cassidy et al. paper associates cultural and genetic changes with “the arrival of agriculture” and “the onset of metallurgy” - reasonable enough. They then say, “The second great wave of change starts with the appearance of copper mines, associated with Bell Beaker pottery, which are quickly followed by Bronze tool-making, weaponry, and gold working, with distinct Food Vessel pottery succeeding from the earlier beakers.” Nirjhar and Gioiello have already commented that it must be Bell Beaker people who migrated to Ireland rather than Corded Ware people. The Corded Ware people did have ancestry from the Steppe but the Bell Beakaer people were contemporaneous with Corded Ware and originated far from the Steppe in South Western Europe. In Central Europe, they eventually replaced the Corded Ware. Moreover the Corded Ware people only had stone battle axes and were unschooled in metallurgy. It is likely that Cassidy et al. are wrong when the assert, “Thus, it is clear that the great wave of genomic change which swept from above the Black Sea into Europe around 3000 BC washed all of the way to the northeast shore of its most westerly island.” Haak et al. only made the modest claim, “These results provide support for the theory of a steppe origin of at least some of the Indo‐European languages of Europe.”
The new year is likely to see the cutting down to size of the Steppe hypothesis and show that only some of the Indo-European languages of Europe originated in the Steppe.

Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:29 pm
From Eurogenes blog:
January 2, 2016 at 10:30 AM
Kristiina said...
I have also been wondering if in Europe, there was not only WHG but somewhere in the Mediterranean area (Italian Ice Age refuge ?), there was also another autochtonous component that started to spread northwards with the Neolithic expansion. However, this European component would also have spread to the Near East and North Africa while Anatolian and Near Eastern component travelled to Europe.

Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:57 pm
Gioiello Tognoni From Eurogenes blog:
January 2, 2016 at 10:30 AM
Kristiina said...
I have also been wondering if in Europe, there was not only WHG but somewhere in the Mediterranean area (Italian Ice Age refuge ?), there was also another autochtonous component that started to spread northwards with the Neolithic expansion. However, this European component would also have spread to the Near East and North Africa while Anatolian and Near Eastern component travelled to Europe.
Adrian Heathcote I don't know that it is ethical to publish people's real names in this way. They have chosen to be anonymous for a reason.
Gioiello Tognoni Adrian Heathcote, in fact I said that I din't believe that what Marnie said were true... anyway if some name were true, very likely it wouldn't be ethical that those famous researchers hidden themselves. I am Gioiello Tognoni, and when I used some nickname (Gioiello, Maliclavelli, Rathna, Claire) everyone knew who I was.
Adrian Heathcote You're quite wrong. People are entitled to anonymity if they choose. I think you should delete this post.
Gioiello Tognoni I am sure that Nirjhar007 is an Indian who writes on Anthrogenica and cannot be Hublin. About the others I don't know anything, but if they were those famous researchers they would have done a meager figure against me, a litterate, a poet, and not a geneticist. They all are losing their battle. That they put their face, after having banned me from everywhere.

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