FTDNA J1c8(a?) with maternal uncle J1c...?


Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:20 am

YDNA:
R-CTS8722
MtDNA:
J1c8a (PhyloTree 16)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:13 pm
FTDNA tells me I'm J1c8, and that my maternal uncle is J1c (we both got FMS). There is no controversy or doubt that his biological mother is my biological grandmother through my biological mother.

I was unable to even find my uncle on my mtDNA matches, so I used Advanced Search to include Family Finder results (in which we are matches) as well as mtDNA, and in those results I'm told that he and I are "not a match" for HVR1, HVR2 and coding region. I contacted their support and after a week or two they explained that their matching system won't even compare us if we're in a different mtDNA haplogroup, and suggested that my grandmother was J1c8 and that my uncle reverted in the single defining locus (from 10398G back to A again). It occurred to me that it could have gone the other way (grandmother as J1c, and my mother or I mutated A10398G), but in any case...

While I wait for my not-so-responsive uncle to provide me his data, I went to http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/ to explore my data vs. PhyloTree Build 15. There the analysis tells me that since I also have 10084C and 16319A, I am J1c8a with the only differences being 'mismatch' (185G) and 'extras' (315.1C) and 3360G. As I said, I am awaiting info from my uncle re these particular markers (hopefully he'll join the FTDNA J-mtDNA project so I can see it, or he'll send me his data directly).

So I am posting to see if anyone has thoughts on the various scenarios in the meantime... Pending uncle's data, the most parsimonious seems to me that grandmother was J1c8a, and my uncle reverted from 10398G back to A again (in which case he'll also probably have 10084C and 16319A)...

Scratching my head...
Dave

Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:20 am

YDNA:
R-CTS8722
MtDNA:
J1c8a (PhyloTree 16)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:57 pm
OK, finally got the FASTA file from my uncle, and things are a bit more clear (no thanks to the FTDNA reference system). FTDNA calls my uncle J1c and me J1c8. Using http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/ I find my uncle best scored as J1c8 and I am best scored as J1c8a. The difference in reference tree led me to think we differed in 10398, but in fact we're both A for that (so both at least J1c8 in PhyloTree Build 15).

There are just two differences in our data (coding region is identical):

One is in HRV2 at 185 (which is given parenthetically by James Lick's site, indicating it's optional in the reference chart as it apparently reverts frequently). Uncle has A (that's a step from J1 to J1c in PhyloTree Build 15), and I have G (a reversion, it appears).

The other is in HRV1 at 16319, which I have as A (that's a step from J1c8 to J1c8A in PhyloTree Build 15) and uncle has as G.

We both have the other J1c8a expected marker (10084C), and we both have the 'extra' (extra for J1c8a) markers 3360G and (315.1C) (parens indicating that latter one varies too frequently to count though).

So, FTDNA won't even report the number of steps and calls us 'not a match' due to the one significant marker of difference from HRV2, at 16319 (and the one less significant difference from HRV1, at 185). I call that one or two steps difference, haplotype difference be damned ;-)... It is annoying to be listed as a different haplotype due to that small difference, but so it goes I guess.

It is not so critical, but it leaves me wondering what our most recent common ancestor, my maternal grandmother, would have had... I guess there's just no way to know without further relevant samples, and while my mother and her sister are also still alive, I don't know that they'll want to pay $99 to test HRV1/2 (or $199 to test FMS) to find out.

Am I missing anything?

Thanks for any thoughts,
Dave

Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:20 am

YDNA:
R-CTS8722
MtDNA:
J1c8a (PhyloTree 16)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:44 am
FTDNA responded to my emailed question on this, and basically said that they currently have a freeze on all manual halplogroup reassignments (pending their shift to PhyloTree Build 15). For now they are keeping me as "J1c8" (per Build 14) and my uncle as "J1c" (ditto), as "Your uncle's kit is missing 16319A that defines J1c8" (though that's only one of three that "defines J1c8" under Build 14, and he has the other two while I have all 3)... I guess I can take it up with them under Build 15 once they get that migration done (by which time Build 16 will be out, so let's just see how the markers fall in that one too...!).

Return to J1c

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest