Big Y for N

User avatar
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:29 am
Location: Finland
YDNA:
N-Y4374
MtDNA:
U5b1b2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:37 am
Stenhög wrote:
MACK wrote:
Stenhög wrote:
That´s interesting.


Intriguing indeed,

CTS3427 and CTS3364 is on the L1022 level. So he isn´t in the L1022 group.

No mentioning of CTS9976 so he is CTS9976 positive like you and thus not L550+.

No CTS3451 so he is not in that group either.

Ergo. He must be from a unknown line of CTS9976 possible an early of shoot from the L1022 tree.

That is another strange line of N coming out from Scandinavia and that is really hard to explain.


His geographical position is also unexpected, on the west coast of sweden but of course his deeper ancestry is unknown. Shame that Shelton don't have information from where in europe his ancestry derives from.


Yeah, haplogroup N is a rare breed in Denmark, Swedish West side and South Norway. Most likely it is not a coincidence that he ancestry is from here. Things points to that his branch is from a very early migration into Scandinavia from the time of the first VL29 expansion, maybe 4000-5000 years ago?

To bad about Shelton, it would be very helpful to have his oldest ancestry and his STR-haplotype.


It is very intresting a new branch on CTS9976.
How old it is?
Is it the first N1c1 in Scandinavia (Sweden)?
We may call them West-Chudes?
User avatar
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:39 pm

YDNA:
N1c1-L1022
MtDNA:
T2b7a1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:31 am
lgmayka wrote:
sasha39 wrote:Hi James, why don't you get in touch with Marja Pirttivaara, see here : https://www.facebook.com/groups/144166412307769/

"I'm collecting a 120 SNP list for FTDNA. Please send me your suggestions, to my gmail address, with title "SNP 120 list". FTDNA asked me to do this, high level request.

I am not on Facebook. Could someone please point Marja to YFull's haplotree, which correctly includes the N-P189 branch and the N-L732 branch?

ISOGG has had N-P189 in the wrong place for a couple of years now.


If someone PM me Marjas gmail adress, so I can send in the wish-list for L1022.
User avatar
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:39 pm

YDNA:
N1c1-L1022
MtDNA:
T2b7a1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:00 am
Juhani Wayrynen wrote:
It is very intresting a new branch on CTS9976.
How old it is?
Is it the first N1c1 in Scandinavia (Sweden)?
We may call them West-Chudes?


The age question is always problematic, but CTS9976 group should approximately be the same age as the parent VL29. So to simplify it you can see it as there are four sub-groups of VL29 namely L1022, CTS3451, L550 and the new branch, all of these groups are formed in a later era with a 10-15 SNPs age difference.

Normally all haplogroup N in Sweden groups should have a parent tree in Finland as this is the very likely expansion point into Scandinavia. But now there is at least two sub groups of N in Sweden with no obvious Finland connection the Z1936* branch and Jakobssons CTS9976 branch. To me the most likely explanation is that they arrived there at an early stage, Bronze Age maybe?. This is of cause a very speculative conclusion.

The Baltic Sea Project calls the L1022 group for West-Chudes so someone need to come with a new name for the new guys.
User avatar
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:29 am
Location: Finland
YDNA:
N-Y4374
MtDNA:
U5b1b2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:55 pm
Stenhög wrote:
Juhani Wayrynen wrote:
It is very intresting a new branch on CTS9976.
How old it is?
Is it the first N1c1 in Scandinavia (Sweden)?
We may call them West-Chudes?


The age question is always problematic, but CTS9976 group should approximately be the same age as the parent VL29. So to simplify it you can see it as there are four sub-groups of VL29 namely L1022, CTS3451, L550 and the new branch, all of these groups are formed in a later era with a 10-15 SNPs age difference.

Normally all haplogroup N in Sweden groups should have a parent tree in Finland as this is the very likely expansion point into Scandinavia. But now there is at least two sub groups of N in Sweden with no obvious Finland connection the Z1936* branch and Jakobssons CTS9976 branch. To me the most likely explanation is that they arrived there at an early stage, Bronze Age maybe?. This is of cause a very speculative conclusion.

The Baltic Sea Project calls the L1022 group for West-Chudes so someone need to come with a new name for the new guys.


To me in Finland West-Chudes are Tawastians and East-Chudes are Chudes.
But I accept Scan-Chudes
User avatar
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:28 am

YDNA:
N-L551
MtDNA:
H11a
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:45 pm
According to the latest N Tree that has been created (updated) by Mr. George Dunkel, a small new branch seems to be forming within L551. This branch looks to be associated with position 14150994?

I understand that this new branch (in many ways) is being based upon my father's (FTDNA kit # 202123) results, and the results of one other man who had the Big-Y test done.


I also see another man who is a member of the Baltic Sea Project... his name Rykaczewski (his FTDNA kit# 225794).

Does anyone agree with me that this man might be a good candidate to test in Big-Y also... for possibly the same position 14150994 (within N-L551)??


If we could get even one more kit to confirm this... it would make even more firm the evidence also our conclusions about this new branch. Am I correct? Are any of the Baltic Sea project administrators reading this? and would it be worth the time... for project administrators to contact him about this? It seems like doing this would help the evidence for this possible new branch.
User avatar
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:51 am
Location: Australia
YDNA:
N1c1a1a1a1a
MtDNA:
H5e1a
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:02 am
Hi supertigerCH,

Your Dad sharing this position at 14150994 with kit N79747 should be enough for FTDNA, I'm not sure but I think that Georg might be asking FTDNA to have a look at it and give it a name once that happens it might be made available for others to test for this marker.
Just check if your dad did ask Georg to submit position 14150994 for consideration if not just get him to confirm at the Baltic Sea DNA project activity page https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ba ... ivity-feed that he would like Georg to make that request and I sure that Georg with get the ball rolling. :P
User avatar
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:59 pm

YDNA:
N-Z35267
MtDNA:
H7a
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:38 pm
Stenhög wrote:
MACK wrote:
Stenhög wrote:
That´s interesting.


Intriguing indeed,

CTS3427 and CTS3364 is on the L1022 level. So he isn´t in the L1022 group.

No mentioning of CTS9976 so he is CTS9976 positive like you and thus not L550+.

No CTS3451 so he is not in that group either.

Ergo. He must be from a unknown line of CTS9976 possible an early of shoot from the L1022 tree.

That is another strange line of N coming out from Scandinavia and that is really hard to explain.


His geographical position is also unexpected, on the west coast of sweden but of course his deeper ancestry is unknown. Shame that Shelton don't have information from where in europe his ancestry derives from.


Yeah, haplogroup N is a rare breed in Denmark, Swedish West side and South Norway. Most likely it is not a coincidence that he ancestry is from here. Things points to that his branch is from a very early migration into Scandinavia from the time of the first VL29 expansion, maybe 4000-5000 years ago?

To bad about Shelton, it would be very helpful to have his oldest ancestry and his STR-haplotype.


From where do you rip that 4000-5000 year :?:

Intriguing also that on the same continent is found 218364 183038 that are his closest hits at 67 marker and to me it looks like they are both probably L1022+
User avatar
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:59 pm

YDNA:
N-Z35267
MtDNA:
H7a
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:38 am
My Y-Full is ready and show following results

Private SNPs (all): 27
Best qual: 13 (48.15%) [10 (37.04%) - best; 3 (11.11%) - acceptable]
INDELs: 0
Ambiguous qual: 14 (51.85%)

So if one SNP is equal to 140-150 years I saw that’s used in previous posts this correspond about 1820-1950 years that is quite close the estimated age of the Y5003
User avatar
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:52 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
YDNA:
N-L1022
MtDNA:
U5a1a1d
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:24 am
MACK wrote:My Y-Full is ready and show following results

Private SNPs (all): 27
Best qual: 13 (48.15%) [10 (37.04%) - best; 3 (11.11%) - acceptable]
INDELs: 0
Ambiguous qual: 14 (51.85%)

So if one SNP is equal to 140-150 years I saw that’s used in previous posts this correspond about 1820-1950 years that is quite close the estimated age of the Y5003


MACK,

Great to hear that you received your YFull results! Any information you can share on your STR matches (both close and distant) from YFull would be greatly appreciated. :)
User avatar
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:59 pm

YDNA:
N-Z35267
MtDNA:
H7a
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:04 pm
James B Crowther wrote:
MACK wrote:My Y-Full is ready and show following results

Private SNPs (all): 27
Best qual: 13 (48.15%) [10 (37.04%) - best; 3 (11.11%) - acceptable]
INDELs: 0
Ambiguous qual: 14 (51.85%)

So if one SNP is equal to 140-150 years I saw that’s used in previous posts this correspond about 1820-1950 years that is quite close the estimated age of the Y5003


MACK,

Great to hear that you received your YFull results! Any information you can share on your STR matches (both close and distant) from YFull would be greatly appreciated. :)


Hello James

Have to wait for the str results to the beginning of June as it looks at this moment.
Have you joined any group at YFull site?
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