Stoeni's haplotype

User avatar
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:19 am
Location: Family Line Veneto ( italy ) since ~1600
YDNA:
T1a2-Z19945
MtDNA:
H95a
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:41 pm
My Yfull is done except for the STR ( which is due February 2017 )

results are

Y-Haplogroup: T-CTS8489
Hg variants: T-CTS8489*, T-Z19945
Terminal SNPs: CTS10538 • CTS8489 • CTS8862 • CTS9984 • Y26649 • Z19944 • Z19951 • Z19953
* Based on YFull YTree v4.10


There is a Z19945 branch in Yfull with positive CTS1848

I have Z19945 as positive , but CTS1848 as negative

I assume when the new tree comes out , I should be a branch off the Z19945 group ...................would this thinking be correct?
Fathers mtdna - T2b17 ...back to 1860 Bucciol line
Grandfathers mtdna - T1a1e ...back to 1820 Mestriner line
Sons Mtdna - K1a4 ....back to 1840 Tesser line
Maternal grandfather ydna - Ild-P109

Posts: 2276
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:43 pm
stoeni wrote:My Yfull is done except for the STR ( which is due February 2017 )

results are

Y-Haplogroup: T-CTS8489
Hg variants: T-CTS8489*, T-Z19945
Terminal SNPs: CTS10538 • CTS8489 • CTS8862 • CTS9984 • Y26649 • Z19944 • Z19951 • Z19953
* Based on YFull YTree v4.10


There is a Z19945 branch in Yfull with positive CTS1848

I have Z19945 as positive , but CTS1848 as negative

I assume when the new tree comes out , I should be a branch off the Z19945 group ...................would this thinking be correct?


That is correct. You will belong to another branch under Z19945.

Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:29 am
From these data we could think that Stoeni's T arrived in Italy/Europe perhaps 6600 years ago but the Sardinian samples could demonstrate also a more recent immigration. Of course hg. T is more likely of Middle Eastern origin, whereas other hgs thought so aren't, as J1 and J2, R1b and R1a, etc. Neither all the E-Z830 are: the Einstein line is very likely of European descent:

T-CTS933S24464 * CTS6071 * CTS933+2 SNPs6500 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 77005600 ybp" class="age"formed 7700 ybp, TMRCA 6600 ybpinfo
T-CTS933*
⦁ id:YF04638EGY [EG-ASN]
T-S27463Y21207 * Y21204 * Y21206+13 SNPs5600 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 2900850 ybp"formed 6600 ybp, TMRCA 1600 ybp⦁ info
⦁ id:ERS256891ITA [IT-CA]
⦁ id:YF04719IRQ [IQ-BA]
T-CTS54Z19926 * Z19902 * CTS6769+26 SNPs5600 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 45002700 ybp" class="age"formed 6600 ybp, TMRCA 3600 ybp⦁ info
T-CTS54*
⦁ id:YF06979USA [US-VA]
⦁ id:NA20758TSI
T-CTS8489CTS10538 * CTS8489 * Z19953+5 SNPs2700 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 41001550 ybp" class="age"formed 3600 ybp, TMRCA 2600 ybp⦁ info
⦁ id:YF07608ITA [IT-TV]new
T-CTS8489*
⦁ id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]
T-Y17493Y17497 * Y17499 * Y17500+11 SNPs1550 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 850150 ybp" class="age"formed 2600 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybp⦁ info
⦁ id:YF04232
⦁ id:YF04203USA [US-NC]
T-Z19945Z19945 * CTS18481550 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 41001550 ybp" class="age"formed 2600 ybp, TMRCA 2600 ybp⦁ info
⦁ id:YF07168BEL [BE-WHT]
⦁ id:HG01051PUR
⦁ id:HG01530IBS
User avatar
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:19 am
Location: Family Line Veneto ( italy ) since ~1600
YDNA:
T1a2-Z19945
MtDNA:
H95a
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:49 am
dartraighe wrote:
stoeni wrote:My Yfull is done except for the STR ( which is due February 2017 )

results are

Y-Haplogroup: T-CTS8489
Hg variants: T-CTS8489*, T-Z19945
Terminal SNPs: CTS10538 • CTS8489 • CTS8862 • CTS9984 • Y26649 • Z19944 • Z19951 • Z19953
* Based on YFull YTree v4.10


There is a Z19945 branch in Yfull with positive CTS1848

I have Z19945 as positive , but CTS1848 as negative

I assume when the new tree comes out , I should be a branch off the Z19945 group ...................would this thinking be correct?


That is correct. You will belong to another branch under Z19945.



Thank you

Information I know so far .....the Z19945 person ...YF07168BEL [BE-WHT] ancestor is Francois Bernot born 1617 in Lorraine France , according to their descendants ( as I spoke to them many times ) they worked as cannon makers for the Spanish in Spanish Netherlands. They also went with the Spanish to migrate to the new world once Spain lost the Dutch wars.
He thinks his ancestors real surname in Berno from Veneto Italy
http://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/BERNO
I am not sure about this.........I did find some Bernot in Gorizia Italy though

- My paternal family oldest ancestor I found via registries church documents was Piero who died in 1452 in Tres Trentino , South Tyrol ( Alto Adage ) Italy

My question is.......if I am a branch of z19945 which has Francois Bernot , does that mean I am more likely originate from France or does this not matter?

Fydna myorigins has me 47% French/German and 24% Italian ........20% anatolian and the rest East European/Balkan ...........1% mongolian
Fathers mtdna - T2b17 ...back to 1860 Bucciol line
Grandfathers mtdna - T1a1e ...back to 1820 Mestriner line
Sons Mtdna - K1a4 ....back to 1840 Tesser line
Maternal grandfather ydna - Ild-P109
User avatar
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:19 am
Location: Family Line Veneto ( italy ) since ~1600
YDNA:
T1a2-Z19945
MtDNA:
H95a
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:50 am
Gioiello wrote:From these data we could think that Stoeni's T arrived in Italy/Europe perhaps 6600 years ago but the Sardinian samples could demonstrate also a more recent immigration. Of course hg. T is more likely of Middle Eastern origin, whereas other hgs thought so aren't, as J1 and J2, R1b and R1a, etc. Neither all the E-Z830 are: the Einstein line is very likely of European descent:

T-CTS933S24464 * CTS6071 * CTS933+2 SNPs6500 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 77005600 ybp" class="age"formed 7700 ybp, TMRCA 6600 ybpinfo
T-CTS933*
⦁ id:YF04638EGY [EG-ASN]
T-S27463Y21207 * Y21204 * Y21206+13 SNPs5600 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 2900850 ybp"formed 6600 ybp, TMRCA 1600 ybp⦁ info
⦁ id:ERS256891ITA [IT-CA]
⦁ id:YF04719IRQ [IQ-BA]
T-CTS54Z19926 * Z19902 * CTS6769+26 SNPs5600 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 45002700 ybp" class="age"formed 6600 ybp, TMRCA 3600 ybp⦁ info
T-CTS54*
⦁ id:YF06979USA [US-VA]
⦁ id:NA20758TSI
T-CTS8489CTS10538 * CTS8489 * Z19953+5 SNPs2700 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 41001550 ybp" class="age"formed 3600 ybp, TMRCA 2600 ybp⦁ info
⦁ id:YF07608ITA [IT-TV]new
T-CTS8489*
⦁ id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]
T-Y17493Y17497 * Y17499 * Y17500+11 SNPs1550 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 850150 ybp" class="age"formed 2600 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybp⦁ info
⦁ id:YF04232
⦁ id:YF04203USA [US-NC]
T-Z19945Z19945 * CTS18481550 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 41001550 ybp" class="age"formed 2600 ybp, TMRCA 2600 ybp⦁ info
⦁ id:YF07168BEL [BE-WHT]
⦁ id:HG01051PUR
⦁ id:HG01530IBS



middle-east is huge............same as saying Europe.........it means very little to me
Fathers mtdna - T2b17 ...back to 1860 Bucciol line
Grandfathers mtdna - T1a1e ...back to 1820 Mestriner line
Sons Mtdna - K1a4 ....back to 1840 Tesser line
Maternal grandfather ydna - Ild-P109

Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:59 am
stoeni wrote:middle-east is huge............same as saying Europe.........it means very little to me


There is no doubt that hg. T came from Middle East. The first sample found in Italy is more recent:

T-Y14629Y14637 * Y14629 * Y14630+9 SNPs9300 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 103007200 ybp" class="age"formed 10500 ybp, TMRCA 8700 ybpinfo
T-Y14629*
⦁ id:YF03297ITA [IT-PZ]
T-Y19767Y19770 * Y19772 * Y19771+46 SNPs7200 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 1150300 ybp" class="age"formed 8700 ybp, TMRCA 600 ybp⦁ info
⦁ id:YF05034SAU [SA-01]
⦁ id:YF02639SAU [SA-01]

Anyway all what I said in the past is confirmed: hg. T is in Europe from many thousands of years. Also this time I am right and all the others wrong.
User avatar
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:19 am
Location: Family Line Veneto ( italy ) since ~1600
YDNA:
T1a2-Z19945
MtDNA:
H95a
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:26 am
Gioiello wrote:
stoeni wrote:middle-east is huge............same as saying Europe.........it means very little to me


There is no doubt that hg. T came from Middle East. The first sample found in Italy is more recent:

T-Y14629Y14637 * Y14629 * Y14630+9 SNPs9300 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 103007200 ybp" class="age"formed 10500 ybp, TMRCA 8700 ybpinfo
T-Y14629*
⦁ id:YF03297ITA [IT-PZ]
T-Y19767Y19770 * Y19772 * Y19771+46 SNPs7200 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 1150300 ybp" class="age"formed 8700 ybp, TMRCA 600 ybp⦁ info
⦁ id:YF05034SAU [SA-01]
⦁ id:YF02639SAU [SA-01]

Anyway all what I said in the past is confirmed: hg. T is in Europe from many thousands of years. Also this time I am right and all the others wrong.


Ok, thanks ............T project administration states that the 3 x T groups ( T1a, T1b and T2 ) came via northern Iran

This tree is from all Yfull T
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogrou ... 4_tree.png

I am in the group which is bottom left ..............Basically called T1b group

-the interesting new T2 group ( found a year ago ) is in Bhutan
Fathers mtdna - T2b17 ...back to 1860 Bucciol line
Grandfathers mtdna - T1a1e ...back to 1820 Mestriner line
Sons Mtdna - K1a4 ....back to 1840 Tesser line
Maternal grandfather ydna - Ild-P109

Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:33 am
stoeni wrote:Ok, thanks ............T project administration states that the 3 x T groups ( T1a, T1b and T2 ) came via northern Iran

This tree is from all Yfull T
https://en wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184#/media/File:Haplogroup_T-M184_tree.png

I am in the group which is bottom left ..............Basically called T1b group

-the interesting new T2 group ( found a year ago ) is in Bhutan


Of course I said "Middle East" in a wide meaning, but it could be also Iran, India etc. Only aDNA could say where the oldest samples were. Anyway the link L/T seems to bring us further East than "Middel East".
User avatar
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:19 am
Location: Family Line Veneto ( italy ) since ~1600
YDNA:
T1a2-Z19945
MtDNA:
H95a
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:45 am
Gioiello wrote:
stoeni wrote:Ok, thanks ............T project administration states that the 3 x T groups ( T1a, T1b and T2 ) came via northern Iran

This tree is from all Yfull T
https://en wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184#/media/File:Haplogroup_T-M184_tree.png

I am in the group which is bottom left ..............Basically called T1b group

-the interesting new T2 group ( found a year ago ) is in Bhutan


Of course I said "Middle East" in a wide meaning, but it could be also Iran, India etc. Only aDNA could say where the oldest samples were. Anyway the link L/T seems to bring us further East than "Middel East".



Thank you

I think the T split was around North-East Iran.....maybe Bactria, Tajik area

In regards to L/T ..........the Genetic atlas ( I do not know how good they are ) state

Haplogroup LT

Time of origin: + 30 kya

Place of origin:Sind Valley

Descendants:LT
Fathers mtdna - T2b17 ...back to 1860 Bucciol line
Grandfathers mtdna - T1a1e ...back to 1820 Mestriner line
Sons Mtdna - K1a4 ....back to 1840 Tesser line
Maternal grandfather ydna - Ild-P109

Posts: 2276
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:49 am
stoeni wrote:
dartraighe wrote:
stoeni wrote:My Yfull is done except for the STR ( which is due February 2017 )

results are

Y-Haplogroup: T-CTS8489
Hg variants: T-CTS8489*, T-Z19945
Terminal SNPs: CTS10538 • CTS8489 • CTS8862 • CTS9984 • Y26649 • Z19944 • Z19951 • Z19953
* Based on YFull YTree v4.10


There is a Z19945 branch in Yfull with positive CTS1848

I have Z19945 as positive , but CTS1848 as negative

I assume when the new tree comes out , I should be a branch off the Z19945 group ...................would this thinking be correct?


That is correct. You will belong to another branch under Z19945.



Thank you


My question is.......if I am a branch of z19945 which has Francois Bernot , does that mean I am more likely originate from France or does this not matter?

Fydna myorigins has me 47% French/German and 24% Italian ........20% anatolian and the rest East European/Balkan ...........1% mongolian


I am sorry but I can't answer that question. You could belong to a Z19945 cluster in Italy or yours might be just one family that has survived with this SNP. I have the same problem with my Y line. There are only two of us at present. I know that my cousins who live in Ireland have the same SNPs but I would need to establish 34 clusters in Ireland or the Isles, one for each of my SNPs under S5520 to try and create a pathway for my Y line into the Isles.
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