Dead women from Middle East

Any discussions regarding mt-DNA markers, results or questions.

Posts: 2408
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:16 pm
I answer a post of vettor (on Anthrogenica) who asked me about the autosome of his wife and her mtDNA K1a4. The autosome, also for the FTDNA!, was completely Italian, and for me is Italian also K1a4, against the common thought as usual.
Who answered vettor quoting the recent paper of Fernàndez et al., which would demonstrate that Europe was peopled from Middle East? Gail Tonnesen. He/she had the decency to say that "It appears Fernàndez did not attempt a full sequence so we might not be able to determine specific K subclades", but this "further undercuts the conclusion of Costa et al. which I've found to be highly speculative and improbable". Who did applaud to Gail? Humanist!
I'll write about the paper and its sponsors, declared and hidden. For now:

C16366T is a very rare mutation. It appears only two times in the "Human mtDNA Phylogeny". The fact that it appears in three of the 15 Middle Eastern samples demonstrates that it was well established there and that it doesn't appear in any of the to-day samples demonstrates that that is a dead line. Why Europeans mtDNA K should derive from a dead woman?
The three hg. R0 have the mutation A16293C in the positions from 16126 to 16369, also this very rare and which doesn't appear in any of the survived R0. Why the European R0 should derive from those dead women?
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Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:19 am
Location: Family Line Veneto ( italy ) since ~1600
YDNA:
T1a2-Z19945
MtDNA:
H95a
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:10 pm
Gioiello wrote:I answer a post of vettor (on Anthrogenica) who asked me about the autosome of his wife and her mtDNA K1a4. The autosome, also for the FTDNA!, was completely Italian, and for me is Italian also K1a4, against the common thought as usual.
Who answered vettor quoting the recent paper of Fernàndez et al., which would demonstrate that Europe was peopled from Middle East? Gail Tonnesen. He/she had the decency to say that "It appears Fernàndez did not attempt a full sequence so we might not be able to determine specific K subclades", but this "further undercuts the conclusion of Costa et al. which I've found to be highly speculative and improbable". Who did applaud to Gail? Humanist!
I'll write about the paper and its sponsors, declared and hidden. For now:

C16366T is a very rare mutation. It appears only two times in the "Human mtDNA Phylogeny". The fact that it appears in three of the 15 Middle Eastern samples demonstrates that it was well established there and that it doesn't appear in any of the to-day samples demonstrates that that is a dead line. Why Europeans mtDNA K should derive from a dead woman?
The three hg. R0 have the mutation A16293C in the positions from 16126 to 16369, also this very rare and which doesn't appear in any of the survived R0. Why the European R0 should derive from those dead women?


maybe K1a4 is a "raetian cluster" of mtDna. the only 6 matches found, range in an area from
Lucerne-Verona-Venice-Trieste-Salzburg -Lucerne

with 1 other in Israel....a person with an "Italia" (Ballon) name
Fathers mtdna - T2b17 ...back to 1860 Bucciol line
Grandfathers mtdna - T1a1e ...back to 1820 Mestriner line
Sons Mtdna - K1a4 ....back to 1840 Tesser line
Maternal grandfather ydna - Ild-P109

Posts: 2408
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:46 pm
stoeni wrote:maybe K1a4 is a "raetian cluster" of mtDna. the only 6 matches found, range in an area from
Lucerne-Verona-Venice-Trieste-Salzburg -Lucerne

with 1 other in Israel....a person with an "Italia" (Ballon) name


stoeni/vettor, I have written a lot about this, and we could agree if what I call "Italian" may be called Rhaetian, North-Adriatic, Alpine etc. Certainly it is not German, because Germans arrived there lastly, if you don't want to accept my theory that also Germans sprang up from that Refugium. All this is clear in the Niederstaetter et al.'s paper you quoted in another thread. Probably also your hg. T has nothing to do with your German surname, but, as Hg. E-M96 and many others, are there long before someone spoke a German language.
Many Jewish hgs, both Y and mt, certainly come from there, as I think having demonstrated many times, not last also E-M44 and why not Q-M242, about whom there is an interesting paper of the Russian team and interesting observations of parasar on Anthrogenica probably I'll speak about in the future.
My K1a1b1e is probably from Tuscany, even though some subclade is present also in the Alpine region. Difficult to say with the data at our disposal what was Alpine or Tuscan or from other zones of to-day Italy.
User avatar
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:19 am
Location: Family Line Veneto ( italy ) since ~1600
YDNA:
T1a2-Z19945
MtDNA:
H95a
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:56 pm
Gioiello wrote:
stoeni wrote:maybe K1a4 is a "raetian cluster" of mtDna. the only 6 matches found, range in an area from
Lucerne-Verona-Venice-Trieste-Salzburg -Lucerne

with 1 other in Israel....a person with an "Italia" (Ballon) name


stoeni/vettor, I have written a lot about this, and we could agree if what I call "Italian" may be called Rhaetian, North-Adriatic, Alpine etc. Certainly it is not German, because Germans arrived there lastly, if you don't want to accept my theory that also Germans sprang up from that Refugium. All this is clear in the Niederstaetter et al.'s paper you quoted in another thread. Probably also your hg. T has nothing to do with your German surname, but, as Hg. E-M96 and many others, are there long before someone spoke a German language.
Many Jewish hgs, both Y and mt, certainly come from there, as I think having demonstrated many times, not last also E-M44 and why not Q-M242, about whom there is an interesting paper of the Russian team and interesting observations of parasar on Anthrogenica probably I'll speak about in the future.
My K1a1b1e is probably from Tuscany, even though some subclade is present also in the Alpine region. Difficult to say with the data at our disposal what was Alpine or Tuscan or from other zones of to-day Italy.


I call it Raetian because they are the oldest known people in the area, they are not german, not italian, not slav..........more likely they are different , separate from everyone, maybe even a branch of gallic people or part ligures ........later becoming celtic in influence.

-In Ydna.org I have only 2 people which have 16 of 17 markers exact with me, 1 from Biella and the other from Linz.

-The area of alps is neolithic in age of Haplotypes, you see that in the 2 italian papers ...........not including the german one which is later in time.

-You know the etruscans did not sail to Italy they came down from the alps.

-I do not believe in jewish haplogroups only in some jewish subclades

-I care little where I am from, all I care is to find the truth for my 99-100% european
Fathers mtdna - T2b17 ...back to 1860 Bucciol line
Grandfathers mtdna - T1a1e ...back to 1820 Mestriner line
Sons Mtdna - K1a4 ....back to 1840 Tesser line
Maternal grandfather ydna - Ild-P109

Posts: 2408
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:25 am
stoeni wrote:-The area of alps is neolithic in age of Haplotypes


This is what are thinking and writing the Solons who manage the fora and make me ban when I have written about 1200 letters (this happened on Rootwsweb, DNAforums, Anthrogenica).

We will see next where hg. R1b1, perhaps R1a-M420, many others and many mt were in Mesolithic and Palaeolitic times.

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