Admixture in Tuscans

Discussions concerning Autosomal DNA.

Moderator: CeCeMoore


Posts: 2410
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:20 pm
The recent paper of Herrenthal et al., A Genetic Atlas of Human Admixture History, Science 343, 747 (2014) DOI: 10.1126/science.1243518, is highly technical that needs a very deep reading, but I'd want to take the pretext from a statement of its for doing some reflections.

"The North Italians exhibit a particularly early event, inferred as simple, which we date to 542BCE (1886BCE-606CE) using the \ancient" grid (see Note S4.3.1; date is estimated as 66BCE (776BCE-550CE) using the standard \recent" grid). The event involves a large amount of admixture (27-33%) between a population inferred as containing haplotypes similar to those
of modern day West Asian (Cypriot) or Middle Easterners (Jordanians), and a population of Northwest European origin, inferred as most similar to present-day Welsh. We also note that the inferred event in the Tuscans involves a highly similar group of populations on both sides of the event (with Cypriot and French best representing each admixing source), but where the \Cypriot" fraction is greater (45%) and which we date to a more recent period 942CE
(522-1222CE), although the confidence intervals for both dates do (barely) overlap" (p. 83 of the Supplement).

Which would be the event of about 942CE that brought all these West Asian people in Tuscany? And West Asians does mean Cypriots and not Middle Easterners (Jordanians). From the history the unique event that could have had an upheaval on the peopling of Tuscany could have been the Greek-Gothic war (535-553CE) where probably the Greek soldiers came from West Asia and could be similar to Anatolians. After we don't know events, if not the Lombard conquest, but that should have brought people of another origin (we are discussing yet about possible Lombard DNA).
And all the hg. J, of many different subclades, found in Tuscany in the 1KGP is just surprising, even though, as I think having demonstrated, they come probably from the Florentine zone, whereas Western Tuscany I found overwhelming hg. R.

But if this were true, we should find links at the STRs level, and this is what I am doing. So far my R-Z2110* finds a link with a Greek (Drakopoulos/N115176), an Italian of probably Arberesh origin (Varipapa/ N29277), 272057 (Unknown Origin) and with Englishmen like Ware (247019) and Seymour (108347). We'll see from next deep tests.

Posts: 2410
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:21 pm
Gioiello wrote: But if this were true, we should find links at the STRs level, and this is what I am doing. So far my R-Z2110* finds a link with a Greek (Drakopoulos/N115176), an Italian of probably Arberesh origin (Varipapa/ N29277), 272057 (Unknown Origin) and with Englishmen like Ware (247019) and Seymour (108347). We'll see from next deep tests.


Probably the person who matches me, of unknown origin, is this:
K65QB Barnum (adopted) Unknown
12 24 14 xx 11 11 15 12 12 13 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 26 15 18 29 14 15 16 18 12 12 19 23 14 16 18 17 37 38 13 12 12 11 11 14 23 10 14 12 12 13 30 24 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 11 23 24 15 10 12 12 16 8 22 20 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 9 11 15 9 16 11 10 13 12 11 10 12 12 11 10 24 26 19 12
and clearly belongs to those people of English descent of the Martin family, those R-Z2110* I supposed of Roman descent, and the link with this Italian
VP8Q2 Picciritto Rignano Garganico, Foggia, Italy
12 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 30 14 15 15 18 11 12 19 23 15 13 12 12 11 13 23 10 14 12 12 15 30 24
perhaps strengthen my hypothesis. Of course an Eastern origin is to put in account too.
They all have, amongst others, my DYS441=14.

Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:45 pm

YDNA:
N1c1
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:25 pm
I tried the MyOrigins function of FamilyTreeDNA's site and they list a portion of my autosomal DNA as Turkey. The rest of the areas indicated on their map makes sense for the rest of my known lineage, except there is no indication for Italy. My Geno 2.0 test specified Tuscany as a portion of my heritage, most likely due to my paternal grandmother's family as my traditional genealogy shows they were from the Rome, Italy area. I am not an expert by any means in DNA testing but was curious if the Turkey indication could mean Etruscan ancestry? I did some searching and learned how it is a possibility that the Etruscans came from Turkey but still quite controversial. Would you have any theories or guidance on this?

Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:03 am

YDNA:
R1a1a1a R-L664
MtDNA:
U5b2b2 PhyloTree
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 1:54 am
Off topic a wee mite, "My Origins" (FTDNA) gave me a shock when I first saw it. It gives me 20% Mediterranean! The way I built my family tree, there should not be any significant amount of Mediterranean, if any at all. After thinking it over, I come to the tentative conclusion that my maternal grandfather (Austrian-born) is not my biological maternal grandfather. I'll probably never know who that guy was. I'm rather certain he was Italian, and not Spanish (Iberian). I sent off a sample to be tested by Ancestry today for verification. They break it down more, than does FTDNA. I have 48% Northlands (Norse), 16% British isles, 16% Continental Plain (or whatever it's labeled), and the above 20% Med (100% European). I hope my Ancestry sample doesn't get lost in the mail. I wonder what they'll come up with for me.


21 Jun '14

Happy Solstice!
I got my Ancestry results back, and they are quite different from FTDNA "My Origins". So I no longer am Italian. There is only a 1% trace amount for Italy/Greece. I am 98% European, according to Ancestry; with 1% Caucasus and less than 1% South Asia (assume India, I guess). They only gave me 28% Scandinavian. My dad was 3/4 Norwegian. Go figure. They gave me 33% Europe West, 14% Great Britain, and 17% Ireland, which includes Wales and Scotland. The remaining 6% they call traces: 4%Iberian Peninsula (where did that come from?), 1% Italy/Greece (mentioned above) and 1% Europe East (Slavs?). How can FTDNA and Ancestry come with with such different results for me, I wonder. And bye the way; I no longer think my maternal grandfather was cuckolded. But an NPE still looks possible somewhere along the line, possibly one generation earlier than him.
Mitosearch: G986T

Return to Autosomal DNA

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron