Comparing ISB Values among Finns and Northern Europeans

Discussions concerning Autosomal DNA.

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Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:14 pm

YDNA:
R-Y2914
MtDNA:
H1c9a
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:58 pm
Jaska Hakkinen is comparing ISB values among his fellow Finns. He is very interested in getting samples from other northern Europeans, including Russians, Poles, Estonians, Lithuanians, and others from the Baltic region. Jaska can only accept autosomal dna results from Family Tree DNA (FTDNA). If you are interested in participating send your packed Family Finder raw data, just the same you downloaded from FamilyTreeDNA’s page to him at hakkinenjaakko[at]gmail.com.

Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:54 pm

YDNA:
N1c1
MtDNA:
H5a1e
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:07 am
Thanks, Leo!

Here is an update:
http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/IBS.pdf

There are now two new East Europeans included, and thus we can trace the population threshold: 0.7580 seems to be such limit, that only two Finns are left below it (having no closer Finnish matches). Just the same limit also separates non-Finns from Finns and also from each other.

At the closest some Finns are closer to the East Europeans than to other Finns, and at the remotest some Finns are as distant from other Finns than they are from the East Europeans. IBS-level seems to confirm the FST-results of genetic studies: Finns are so different from each other that we can hardly speak about one population. (See http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin ... nnish.xps; IE Explorer can open it if you don't have Windows 7)

Finns do not seem to cluster areally (although East Finns are still missing), but all Finns set around the four core persons. This core is connected by the area of Old Tavastians, and we may be witnessing the Finnish (Old Tavastian) founder effect.

I wish more data both from Finns and from other populations!

Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:14 pm

YDNA:
R-Y2914
MtDNA:
H1c9a
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:04 pm
Jaska's project is providing very interesting results, not only for Finns, but for those with northern European descent, especially those who from the Baltic region, Poles or Russians.

Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:54 pm

YDNA:
N1c1
MtDNA:
H5a1e
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:34 am
The document is now updated:
http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/IBS.pdf
(Remember to refresh the browser, otherwise it shows the old version!)

Table of pairwise values is found separately:
http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/IBS.xlsx

The diversity of Finns still seems to equal the diversity of other Europeans + white Americans altogether. Funny. :)

More samples are appreciated!

Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:54 pm

YDNA:
N1c1
MtDNA:
H5a1e
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:08 pm
Now there are 40 Family Finder + 3 converted Relative Finder members, and the groups begin to form. This figure is based on inter-group IBS-medians:

Image

It is so beautiful: Western Tavastian groups share most with West-South Europeans, and Suur-Kyrö shares most with Baltic group.

Additionally we can distinguish inland and north (partially overlapping).

Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:54 pm

YDNA:
N1c1
MtDNA:
H5a1e
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:47 pm
Tättärää!


The file is now updated: there are 47 samples, of which 32 Finns.

http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/IBS.pdf
http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/IBS.xlsx

As a result we have the following populations:

A) Balto-Slavic population:
Baltic (Tomas, Giedrius)
Half-Ukrainian (Constantine, Elena)
Russian (Albina, ElenaCh)

B) West Finnish population
1. West coast main group
1a (Pauli, Helena, Kirmu)
1b (PekkaA, Levanki, Loimo's mom)
6. Great Kyrö main group
6a (Ojaniemenkylä, Tapio, Erkki)
6b (Pettersisko, Saikkala)

C) Tavastian population and main group
3a (Marko, Seppo, Äijälä)
3b (Esko, Jani, Karoisä)
3c (Riikka, Karoäiti)

D) Population of the rest of Finland
4. East-north main group
4a (Kalifi, Jaska, Loimo, Laurukainen)
4b (Loimo's grandfather)
5. West-north main group (Marjukka, Bertarido, PekkaP)
2. Mid-Finnish main group (Senyho, Marja, Jola, Knaapi)

Image

EDIT: Corrected the population codes...

EDIT2: Now it is possible to compare original Relative Finder -files to each other! The results with the converted (RF --> FF type) were very commensurate with the results gained with the Family Finder -files.

Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:54 pm

YDNA:
N1c1
MtDNA:
H5a1e
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:30 am
OK, updated and mostly rewritten and at this point short IBS-document can be found in the URL:
http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/IBS.pdf

There are now 62 Family Finder samples; Relative Finder samples are at the moment too few to analyze (8).

Remember to refresh the browser, if it still shows the older version!

Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:24 am
Location: Kokkola, Finland
YDNA:
R1a1a
MtDNA:
U5b1b2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:36 pm
Interesting. Apparently that file doesn't exist, though... Anyone have a need for a DNA file?
Tuuli, a Finnish-speaking Western Finn

Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:54 pm

YDNA:
N1c1
MtDNA:
H5a1e
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:35 pm
Now I can at last compare different raw data files, here are illustrations of the results:
http://www.elisanet.fi/alkupera/IBS100neutral.png

Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:14 pm

YDNA:
R-Y2914
MtDNA:
H1c9a
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:57 pm
Jaska wrote:Now I can at last compare different raw data files, here are illustrations of the results:
http://www.elisanet.fi/alkupera/IBS100neutral.png

Great work Jaska. the detail to your efforts is especially impressive. Can you tell us something about your K-Means clustering, i.e., what populations you used for its determination?
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