Who's your (proto) daddy Western Europeans?

General discussions regarding DNA and its uses in genealogy research

Posts: 2098
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:29 pm
The LBK Stuttgart 7,500 ybp had "rs1805005 16 TG" so she had one copy of the red haired gene. And she had the most common light skin gene in western Europe rs1426654 AA. She died in Germany 500 years before La Brana and Motala-12.

The LBK woman is proof that the Yamnaya did not bring the light skin gene rs1426654 to west Europe nor the redhaired genes either. Follow the evidence and not the PIE.

http://www.y-str.org/2014/10/linearband ... k-dna.html

The MAF "T" in rs1805005 is found in Tuscany population at 16%, Iberia 15% and GBR at 12%.
http://grch37.ensembl.org/Homo_sapiens/ ... n_freq_EUR

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2014/10 ... gatherers/

Motala 2 had two copies of the derived allele of rs1426654. This SNP is located in the gene SLC24A5, and its derived allele is one of the two major Caucasoid depigmentation mutations. Motala 12, Stuttgart, Gökhem 2, Ötzi, and Afontova Gora 2 also had two copies of the derived allele, while Loschbour, Ajvide 58, La Braña 1, and Mal’ta 1 had two copies of the ancestral allele.
Last edited by dartraighe on Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Posts: 2098
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:58 pm
http://www.thejournal.ie/cheddar-man-ir ... 6-Feb2018/

"Speaking on RTÉ Radio One’s Morning Ireland, professor of population genetics at Trinity College Dublin, Dan Bradley said that a project with the National Museum of Ireland has made similar findings for that of the earliest Irish populations.

The researchers working on the Irish project have compiled data from two individuals from over 6,000 years ago that provide similar results as Cheddar Man.

“The earliest Irish would have been the same as Cheddar Man and would have had darker skin than we have today,” Bradley said.

He said their findings suggest the DNA is linked to individuals from Spain and Luxembourg, people who populated western European after the last Ice Age but before the farming era.

Similarly, Cheddar Man’s tribe migrated to Britain at the end of the last Ice Age and his DNA has been linked to individuals discovered in modern-day Spain, Hungary and Luxembourg.

“We think [the Irish examples] would be similar. The current, very light skin we have in Ireland now is at the endpoint of thousands of years of surviving in a climate where there’s very little sun,” Bradley said.

“It’s an adaptation to the need to synthesise vitamin D in skin. It has taken thousands of years for it to become like it is today.”

Bradley’s research suggests that there were about 30-40,000 people on the island of Ireland at the time that the dark skin genomes date back to."

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:11 pm

Posts: 2098
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:19 pm
This article does not help the "Out of Africa scenario" 60,000 ybp.

Why Do Europeans Have So Many Hair and Eye Colors? 2006

"Most humans have only one hair color and one eye color. Europeans are a big exception: their hair is black but also brown, flaxen, golden, or red; their eyes are brown but also blue, gray, hazel, or green. This diversity reaches a maximum in an area centered on the East Baltic and covering northern and eastern Europe. If we move outward, to the south and east, we see a rapid return to the human norm: hair becomes uniformly black and eyes uniformly brown."

"Why this color diversity? And why only in Europe? Some believe it to be a side effect of natural selection for fairer skin to ensure enough vitamin D at northern latitudes. Yet skin color is weakly influenced by the different alleles for hair color or eye color apart from the ones for red hair or blue eyes. Some have no effect at all on skin pigmentation."

"For others still, this color diversity arose through random factors: genetic drift, founder effects, relaxation of natural selection, etc. But these factors could not have produced such a wide variety of hair and eye hues in the 35,000 years that modern humans have inhabited Europe. The hair-color gene (MC1R) has at least 7 alleles that exist only in Europe and the same is probably true for the eye-color gene (OCA2). If we take the hypothesis of a relaxation of selection, nearly a million years would be needed to accumulate this amount of diversity. Moreover, it is odd that the same sort of diversification has evolved at two different genes whose only point in common is to color a facial feature."

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:35 pm
Here below are the results from the eye colour predictor at GEDmatch for Vilabruna and Grevettian-Italy and my genotype. One can see for rs892839 I have GG and some experts state that the AA geneotype is associated with blue eyes. I have GG and it goes to show that one SNP alone does not help to determine the colour of the eyes. Still I have a lot in common with the Italian ancients and the blue eye gene is at least 27,000 ybp.

ID M236020 Villabruna and my genotype
rs17762363 CT TT
rs7174027 GG GG
rs892839 AA GG
rs1105879 AA AA
rs1129038 TT TT
rs12906280 TT GG
rs16891982 CC n/a
rs1667394 TT TT
rs4779685 CC CC
rs4778241 CC CC
rs11636232 TT TT

ID T947885 Grevettian-Italy my geneotype
rs1129038 CC CC
rs1105879 AA AA
rs7403602 CC TC
rs12913832 AA GG
rs1667394 TT TT
rs12203592 CC CC
rs3768056 GG n/a

Posts: 2098
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:05 pm
Cheddar Man FAQ

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/our-science/our-wo ... n-faq.html

"Are there any people with lighter skin pigmentation at this time?
Yes. Populations with the versions of genes primarily responsible for lighter skin pigmentation were living in parts of Scandinavia and western Asia at around the time Cheddar man was alive5,8-9."

Anyone can download the Pigmentation data on this site.

Cheddar man had the T allele at rs12203592 and I have CC.
Last edited by dartraighe on Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 2098
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:05 pm
LBK Stuttgart (5,310-5,070 BC) was derived for the most common light skin gene ( rs1426654 AA)in western Europeans and yet some experts maintain that the Yamnaya brought this gene into western Europe. They have no absolutely no right to misinform the public and they have an agenda.

Stuttgart was derived for BNC2 rs10756819 AA which is the same for me in my raw data. This Neolithic farmer had light skin 7,300 ybp which is before the Motala 12 date. Light skin and dark skin people were living in western Europe in the Mesolithic. The Cheddar Man documentary did not mention this. It was a pure BS program.

Eurogenes ANE K7
WHG-UHG 43.28
East_Eurasian 0.21
West_African -
East_African -
ENF 56.51

Dodecad K12b Oracle results:

Kit F999916

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Med 54.92
2 Caucasus 30.3
3 Southwest_Asian 10.78
4 Northwest_African 3.79
5 North_European 0.14
6 Southeast_Asian 0.0


"This SNP influences skin pigmentation. The allele, A111T, rs1426654(A), indicates light-skinned european ancestry. [PMID 16847698, PMID 16357253]
It appears as if this SNP is a relatively new one in human evolution; one estimate [PMID 17182896] is that the rs1426654(A) allele, in other words, light skin pigmentation, spread through the European population around 6,000 - 12,000 years ago. Prior to that, "European ancestors" were most likely relatively brown-skinned. Another study ([PMID 24048645OA-icon.png]) has concluded that almost individuals carrying the A111T variant can trace ancestry back to a single person who most likely lived at least 10,000 years ago.

This SNP is one of three from the SLC24A5 gene that can be analyzed to categorize the ancestry of a person as either European, African, or Asian, based on a 2009 study.[PMID 19440451OA-icon.png]"

The 3 SNPs are:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:51 am
I don't have a problem with the colour of Cheddar man's skin, but the anti-Iberian R1b and anti-Italian R1b crowd are shoving the Steppe R1b origin theory down our throats. And the truth of the matter is that all western HGs were not dark skinned. Some "obsessed with the PIE" people have written that we got our light skin gene from the Steppe.

Some of the Neanderthals had light skin and red hair and they died out 40,000 ybp. Were the Neanderthals from the Steppe also?

One hypocrite writing on eurogenes blog has the brass neck to call people racist and if anyone writes that DF27 originated in Iberia he goes ballistic. He must be DF27 and he definitely does not like Iberians. He is one of those who always state "we are all from somewhere else". We have some deluded people who think that they came from another planet, like Superman, Spiderman and Wonderwoman etc., and they all write on other forums.

Posts: 2098
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:50 am
Cheddar man carried the red hair gene, rs11547464 A/G. Africans don't carry the red hair gene and they made him look as if he came from Africa. It is highly unlikely that a person of north western European extraction would have dark skin and red hair. He would have got the red hair gene from one of his parents which would show that one of his parents had light skin. The red hair gene evolved in northern Europe and scientists should be able to say how long modern humans are in Europe by studying this gene. I think that western Europe has the most red hair variants.

A relative of mine has a child with red hair but he has none of the red hair variants that are in the raw data of the present autosomal dna tests.


Posts: 2098
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:13 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... e-all.html

"Was Cheddar man white after all? There's no way to know that the first Briton had ‘dark to black skin’ says scientist who helped reconstruct his 10,000-year-old face
The bones are the oldest near-complete human skeleton ever found in Britain
Experts tested DNA taken from bone powder by drilling a hole through the skull
It showed there was a 76 per cent chance that Cheddar Man was ‘dark to black’
Scientist behind the test used says it is impossible to be certain of this fact"

My view is that I don't think that Cheddar man had dark skin and be positive for the red hair gene rs11547464 A/G. He got the red hair gene from one of his parents so it proves that some of the Cheddar region people were light skinned and red haired.

rs11547464 SNP

http://grch37.ensembl.org/Homo_sapiens/ ... n_freq_EUR

The 1000 genomes site shows that the derived allele (A) is in 3% of the Iberian population and 1% of the Finnish population. It does not show up in African populations.

FTDNA and Living dna does not have this SNP in their raw data files.

Here is what the 1000 gemome project shows for one of the most common red hair SNPs in Ireland (rs1805008). There is no info for eastern Europe.
http://grch37.ensembl.org/Homo_sapiens/ ... n_freq_EUR

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