Who's your (proto) daddy Western Europeans?

General discussions regarding DNA and its uses in genealogy research

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U5b2b
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:32 pm
Jdean wrote:
dartraighe wrote:If the "steppe people" were looking for new pastures then Italy certainly was not the place to migrate to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steppe
In physical geography, a steppe is an ecoregion, in the montane grasslands and shrublands and temperate grasslands, savannas and shrublands biomes, characterized by grassland plains without trees apart from those near rivers and lakes.


If people were incapable of adaptation we would still be hunter gatherers.



There is no steppe in Wales, Scotland, Iberia, Switzerland,Austria, Italy etc. all regions are that are awash with R1b. Western Europeans were capable of adapting languages also.
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YDNA:
R-DF49*
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J1c2e
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:23 pm
dartraighe wrote:
Jdean wrote:
dartraighe wrote:If the "steppe people" were looking for new pastures then Italy certainly was not the place to migrate to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steppe
In physical geography, a steppe is an ecoregion, in the montane grasslands and shrublands and temperate grasslands, savannas and shrublands biomes, characterized by grassland plains without trees apart from those near rivers and lakes.


If people were incapable of adaptation we would still be hunter gatherers.



There is no steppe in Wales, Scotland, Iberia, Switzerland,Austria, Italy etc. all regions are that are awash with R1b. Western Europeans were capable of adapting languages also.


That's right, people are totally incapable of taking advantage of new technology or adjusting to different environments, that's why there has never been any migration and we are still all chipping away at rocks whilst waiting for the next herd of mammoths : )

More interesting is why you spend so much time coming up with these crap arguments ?

Posts: 2093
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:29 pm
You show me the R1b-L51 YSNP trail from the Sok River to Ireland. You can't because there isn't one. You are one of a small minority who have a problem with an L51 origin in western/central Europe and continuity. The real crap is the PIE and the autosomal Steppe dna.



Where in the steppe did P312 originate? I don't see any evidence of it. https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-P312/
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:42 pm
Not a small minority as well you know, not any more : )

At the end of the day you’re the one running around like a headless chicken trying to discredit every single new paper or burying your head in the sand whilst coming out with dumb comments like the above : ))))

Posts: 2093
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:27 am
Jdean wrote:Not a small minority as well you know, not any more : )

At the end of the day you’re the one running around like a headless chicken trying to discredit every single new paper or burying your head in the sand whilst coming out with dumb comments like the above : ))))



I asked you to show me the evidence and all you come out with is insults. I asked a dna expert about the origin of U106 in the Ukraine and he stated that U106 did not originate in the Ukraine but in southern Germany. L51 is our ancestor and he belonged to a single family and that is a fact. Look at the Y tree. I am interested in the facts not in fairy tales.

From my Y report at Yfull. Every P312 and U106 male in western Europe is descended from this single Y line. There were no 1000's of L51 males who invaded western Europe in the BA. There is absolutely no evidence to support an R1b L51 invasion. Dream on.
R-L51 E207 • Y410 PF6535 L51 • M412 • S167 • PF6536 PF6414 CTS10373 • PF6537 • FGC39 R-L151 PF6416 L11 • S127 • PF6539 PF6538 L151 • PF6542 P311 • S128 • PF6545 L52 • PF6541 FGC44 • CTS7650 • PF6544 • S1164 YSC0000191 • PF6543 • S1159 P310 • S129 • PF6546 Y101 • FGC796 • Z8159 PF5856 YSC0001249 • CTS10353 • S1175

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Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:15 am
I received from a friend of mine the link to the paper Silva et al., A genetic chronology for the Indian Subcontinental points to heavily sex-biased dispersal, already published on line in the first months of this year. This has been my answer, where you may understand why the truth isn’t coming out and who are those interested in that doesn’t happen:

What news? What surprising? Perhaps for the Indian nationalists, or for the Levantinists and Kurganists, but not for me. Note that the paper is from Iberia, i.e. from where arrived the Canaanite funds for demonstrating the levantinist origin of Europe, but now they are reduced to that: even Near East was populated from East (above all all the hg. J), and in origin there was only some subclade of hg E (we’ll see which and if there are descendants to-day). About the Kurganists (do you remember that they thought that all R1b arrived in Western Europe from Samara?) they are reduced to that:

Given the difficulties with deriving the European Corded Ware directly from Yamnaya, a plausible alternative (yet to be directly tested with genetic evidence) is an earlier Steppe origin amongst Copper Age Khavlin [sic], Srednij Stog and Skelya pastoralists, about 7-5.5 ka, with an infiltration of southwest European Chalcolitic Tripolye communities about 6.4 ka, living rise to both the Corded Ware and Yamnaya when it broke up about 5.4 ka (p. 12).

I am saying from so long that yHG R1b1 didn’t come from Near East, and above R-V88 (demonstrated) and that R-Z2110 (mine ) and above all R-L51 and subclades didn’t come from Samara etc etc
I wrote that all came from the Cardials, centred on Italy, and left the possibility that they might have come from east, but that should have been demonstrated (but so far no R1b-L51 in Middle/Near Eastern, Anatolian, Eastern European aDNA).
This table is ridiculous. West Eurasia isn’t an unique region, and Caucasus or Iran aren’t Near East, and less it is Europe: X
I am waiting that all my analyses are verified: that Jews have a little to do with Old Jews, even for hgs J and E, that the Bible is their “Mein Kampf”, that only a lackey like Trump could support them, etc etc. And if I were American, sitting upon Yellowstone, I’d be less presumptuous, as one only Satan 2 may annihilate all them.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:33 am
Gioiello wrote:
Given the difficulties with deriving the European Corded Ware directly from Yamnaya, a plausible alternative (yet to be directly tested with genetic evidence) is an earlier Steppe origin amongst Copper Age Khavlin [sic], Srednij Stog and Skelya pastoralists, about 7-5.5 ka, with an infiltration of southwest European Chalcolitic Tripolye communities about 6.4 ka, living rise to both the Corded Ware and Yamnaya when it broke up about 5.4 ka (p. 12).




You are saying that they are now suggesting a Neolithic invasion/migration from the Steppe to make it fit for those sad people who cannot accept the facts. The CWC elites in Germany being 75% Steppe and yet they were all R1a to date.

The earliest bell beakers were found in Iberia but some forget that and bury their head in the sand.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:16 pm
Gioiello
How many Bell Beaker graves were found in the Russian steppe?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:34 am
dartraighe wrote:Gioiello
How many Bell Beaker graves were found in the Russian steppe?

Nobody thinks that Bell Beakers were Eastward, but they think that Western European Bell Beakers were peopled from men from Yamnaya. But don't consider these stupid people of the blogs, consider who gets the power, the labs, the papers etc., but I brought infinite proofs against them. They are dead men walking... without Paradise.

Posts: 2093
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:06 am
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:Gioiello
How many Bell Beaker graves were found in the Russian steppe?

Nobody thinks that Bell Beakers were Eastward, but they think that Western European Bell Beakers were peopled from men from Yamnaya. But don't consider these stupid people of the blogs, consider who gets the power, the labs, the papers etc., but I brought infinite proofs against them. They are dead men walking... without Paradise.


To learn about R1b we should look in Italy where the oldest R1b was found to date. There are 15 million R1b in Italy and only 2 million R1b in Ireland. Italy has the most R1b diversity. Italy is not one of the Celtic nations.
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