L'albero della vita

General discussions regarding DNA and its uses in genealogy research

Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:58 pm
Atanas Kumbarov, I thank you for the tree of R-M343 (xP312,xU106), but Sergey Malyshev? I think that the "Italian Refugium" is demonstrated Beyond any possible doubt. Thus many R1b in Palaeolithic and Mesolithic Europe. Villabruna below R-M73? Do you think that are Worth the same samples of 14000 years ago and Others found in Eastern Europe many thousands of years later?

Posts: 2152
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:09 pm
Gioiello wrote:Atanas Kumbarov, I thank you for the tree of R-M343 (xP312,xU106), but Sergey Malyshev? I think that the "Italian Refugium" is demonstrated Beyond any possible doubt. Thus many R1b in Palaeolithic and Mesolithic Europe. Villabruna below R-M73? Do you think that are Worth the same samples of 14000 years ago and Others found in Eastern Europe many thousands of years later?



Gioiello
Is this is the tree you are referring to? https://kumbarov.com/ht35/R1b_xP312xU106_V.38.1.pdf

Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:24 am
dartraighe wrote:Gioiello
Is this is the tree you are referring to? https://kumbarov.com/ht35/R1b_xP312xU106_V.38.1.pdf


Yes, it is. Atanas replied to one questiono of mine: “Atanas Kumbarov Villabruna is placed wrongly on the tree. Should be one level up, under P297. Will be fixed in the next version”.
Of course the tree should be integrated with all what I have been writing in these last ten years.

Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:45 am
R-M12135 M12135 formed 4300 ybp, TMRCA 3000 ybp
• R-M12135*
o id:YF11544ARMnew
o id:YF11539ITA [IT-PA]new
o id:ERR445312IND
o id:YF08818ARM
o id:YF07970ARM

Dear Gregory, take this sample. This is a subclade of R-L277, your haplogroup. No doubt that this subclade seems having expanded from the R-L23 found at Samara (with a few other subclades), and also your subclade, so far found only in Italy, may have come from Caucasus as you think (Alans or others). We have here two new samples, but we already know them from the FTDNA tests, not only put on the YFull tree. It is very likely that these samples expanded from Caucasus Eastward to India and Westward to Italy. As to YFull (and perhaps you know that I have always doubted of their dates) these samples separated only 3000 years ago, and we may try to under stand which people brought them. But other subclades of the same R-L23 don’t demonstrate that (including my R-L23-Z2110-FGC24408, more and more Italian: I find a close Italian also in my subclade: look at the last R-M343 (xP312, xU106) tree), not counting the upstream subclades of R-V88, R-L389, R-L73 (xM478), R-L51-PF7589, R-L11 and subclades all Western European.

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