Ancient Swedish farmer came from the Mediterranean

General discussions regarding DNA and its uses in genealogy research

Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:22 pm

YDNA:
R1b-U152
MtDNA:
H1
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:25 am
http://www.nature.com/news/ancient-swed ... an-1.10541

Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:26 pm
Location: Paris region
YDNA:
G2a2b2a1b1a2a-CT4803
MtDNA:
H2a2a1 (rCRS)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:34 am
haakon wrote:http://www.nature.com/news/ancient-swedish-farmer-came-from-the-mediterranean-1.10541


2 analysis of Dieneskes Pontikos in the same opinion of the authors :

http://dienekes.blogspot.fr/2012/04/fir ... ithic.html

http://dienekes.blogspot.fr/2012/04/anc ... weden.html

1 analysis of Maju not in accordance with the authors ;

http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.fr ... isons.html

Conclusion of Maju:
"Judge yourselves because these comparisons are never 100% conclusive, but my impressions is that the Megalithic farmer (red) clusters mostly with Iberians, except in the last graph where it does with the British-CEU sample.

The Pitted Ware samples (cyan or sky blue) are less precise (they are three after all) but where Eastern European samples other than Finnish are available for comparison, they tend to cluster with them (or between them and Sweden and Finland). In the last panel, where Swedes have been oversampled and non-Finnic Eastern Europeans removed, Ire8 and Ajv52 cluster withing modern Northern Swedes, while Ajv70 is anomalous.

So I do not think that the conclusions publicited in the press release (which are probably also those of the paper) can be taken at face value but rather with a good pinch of salt: the factual data seems to suggest that the genetics of these prehistoric people are quite related to that of modern Europeans from Scandinavia, Eastern and Western Europe. The comparison cannot be expected to produce identical individuals because, no matter how hard we might try or how much we may owe them in a sense, we are not our ancestors."

Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:22 pm

YDNA:
R1b-U152
MtDNA:
H1
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:11 pm
Good that you found that, for me it seems that the statistical base is a bit too small to draw such large conclusions as the Swedish researchers do .....

Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:23 pm

YDNA:
R1b-Z220*
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:51 pm
I wouldn't necessarily disagree with Maju - despite the fact we can say nothing about the Palaeolithic or language from this data.

Hunter gatherers in the north seem to be completely void of every component except North European. (here we have our U4a, U4b, U5b mtDNA - not certain about male side yet) As a result, when the southern immigrants assimilated with them gradually, we see in a decrease and near elimination of SW Asian component, as it was void in the north European mates. Go through a few generations of mating and you will see this component drop - but the 2 primary components will begin to balance out.

The questions that need answering would be - how far into Europe did the North European component actually spread during the Neolithic and earlier? As it was void in the Otzi sample Austria/Italy. It may have been completely restricted to the Baltic area, or far north of Europe before it moved into places like Spain and Italy with later people. (Celts, Germanics..etc)

In terms of not matching Iberia - well this is quite simple. The NW African not present in France/Netherlands, might be why the correlation with Spain is lower than the previous two countries. I am not sure yet what all this data tells us. I would not rule out S.European being hunter gatherers at one time, just originating from a different region of Europe. After all, can we say that cro-magnon would have been nearly completely north European by these components? I'm not sure....

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