Another mtDNA H from the Italian Refugium?


Posts: 2157
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:31 am
Gioiello said...
This letter to demonstrate why people like Richard Rocca or Pretotto has nothing to do with our Latin ancestors. They certainly descend from wandering spores brought from a wuthering wind. Rocca disproves also his Spanish maternal side from what he writes about Iberian Bell Beakers. Hope that he at least likes the Polish fatherland of his children. "ex illa nostra Italia" isn't just "one of those provinces in Italy ", but, as Davdiski says, I am prone in believing conspiracies!

C. PLINIUS IUNIO MAURICO SUO S. 1 Petis ut fratris tui filiae prospiciam maritum; quod merito mihi potissimum iniungis. Scis enim quanto opere summum illum virum suspexerim dilexerimque, quibus ille adulescentiam meam exhortationibus foverit, quibus etiam laudibus ut laudandus viderer effecerit. 2 Nihil est quod a te mandari mihi aut maius aut gratius, nihil quod honestius a me suscipi possit, quam ut eligam iuvenem, ex quo nasci nepotes Aruleno Rustico deceat. 3 Qui quidem diu quaerendus fuisset, nisi paratus et quasi provisus esset Minicius Acilianus, qui me ut iuvenis iuvenem — est enim minor pauculis annis — familiarissime diligit, reveretur ut senem. 4 Nam ita formari a me et institui cupit, ut ego a vobis solebam. Patria est ei Brixia, ex illa nostra Italia quae multum adhuc verecundiae frugalitatis, atque etiam rusticitatis antiquae, retinet ac servat. 5 Pater Minicius Macrinus, equestris ordinis princeps, quia nihil altius volvit; allectus enim a Divo Vespasiano inter praetorios honestam quietem huic nostrae — ambitioni dicam an dignitati? — constantissime praetulit. 6 Habet aviam maternam Serranam Proculam e municipio Patavio. Nosti loci mores: Serrana tamen Patavinis quoque severitatis exemplum est. Contigit et avunculus ei P. Acilius gravitate prudentia fide prope singulari. In summa nihil erit in domo tota, quod non tibi tamquam in tua placeat. 7 Aciliano vero ipsi plurimum vigoris industriae, quamquam in maxima verecundia. Quaesturam tribunatum praeturam honestissime percucurrit, ac iam pro se tibi necessitatem ambiendi remisit. 8 Est illi facies liberalis, multo sanguine multo rubore suffusa, est ingenua totius corporis pulchritudo et quidam senatorius decor. Quae ego nequaquam arbitror neglegenda; debet enim hoc castitati puellarum quasi praemium dari. 9 Nescio an adiciam esse patri eius amplas facultates. Nam cum imaginor vos quibus quaerimus generum, silendum de facultatibus puto; cum publicos mores atque etiam leges civitatis intueor, quae vel in primis census hominum spectandos arbitrantur, ne id quidem praetereundum videtur. Et sane de posteris et his pluribus cogitanti, hic quoque in condicionibus deligendis ponendus est calculus. 10 Tu fortasse me putes indulsisse amori meo, supraque ista quam res patitur sustulisse. At ego fide mea spondeo futurum ut omnia longe ampliora quam a me praedicantur invenias. Diligo quidem adulescentem ardentissime sicut meretur; sed hoc ipsum amantis est, non onerare eum laudibus. Vale.
May 14, 2017 at 11:53 PM
Gioiello said...
You desire me to look out a proper husband for your niece: it is with justice you enjoin me that office. You know the high esteem and affection I bore that great man her father, and with what noble instructions he nurtured my youth, and taught me to deserve those praises he was pleased to bestow upon me. You could not give me, then, a more important, or more agreeable, commission; nor could I be employed in an office of higher honour, than that of choosing a young man worthy of being father of the grandchildren of Rusticus Arulenus; a choice I should be long in determining, were I not acquainted with Minutius Aemilianus, who seems formed for our purpose. He loves me with all that warmth of affection which is usual between young men of equal years (as indeed I have the advance of him but by a very few), and reveres me at the same time, with all the deference due to age; and, in a word, he is no less desirous to model himself by my instructions than I was by those of yourself and your brother. He is a native of Brixia, one of those provinces in Italy which still retain much of the old modesty, frugal simplicity, and even rusticity, of manner. He is the son of Minutius Macrinus, whose humble desires were satisfied with standing at the head of the equestrian order: for though he was nominated by Vespasian in the number of those whom that prince dignified with the praetorian office, yet, with an inflexible greatness of mind, he resolutely preferred an honourable repose, to the ambitious, shall I call them, or exalted, pursuits, in which we public men are engaged. His grandmother, on the mother's side, is Serrana Procula, of Patavium: you are no stranger to the character of its citizens; yet Serrana is looked upon, even among these correct people, as an exemplary instance of strict virtue, Acilius, his uncle, is a man of almost exceptional gravity, wisdom, and integrity. In short, you will find nothing throughout his family unworthy of yours. Minutius himself has plenty of vivacity, as well as application, together with a most amiable and becoming modesty. He has already, with considerable credit, passed through the offices of quaestor, tribune, and praetor; so that you will be spared the trouble of soliciting for him those honourable employments. He has a fine, well-bred, countenance, with a ruddy, healthy complexion, while his whole person is elegant and comely and his mien graceful and senatorian: advantages, I think, by no means to be slighted, and which I consider as the proper tribute to virgin innocence. I think I may add that his father is very rich. When I contemplate the character of those who require a husband of my choosing, I know it is unnecessary to mention wealth; but when I reflect upon the prevailing manners of the age, and even the laws of Rome, which rank a man according to his possessions, it certainly claims some regard; and, indeed, in establishments of this nature, where children and many other circumstances are to be duly weighed, it is an article that well deserves to be taken into the account. You will be inclined, perhaps, to suspect that affection has had too great a share in the character I have been drawing, and that I have heightened it beyond the truth: but I will stake all my credit, you will find everything far beyond what I have represented. I love the young fellow indeed (as he justly deserves) with all the warmth of a most ardent affection; but for that very reason I would not ascribe more to his merit than I know it will bear. Farewell.
May 14, 2017 at 11:54 PM
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Posts: 541
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:19 am
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:53 pm
Gioiello wrote:Gioiello said...
This letter to demonstrate why people like Richard Rocca or Pretotto has nothing to do with our Latin ancestors. They certainly descend from wandering spores brought from a wuthering wind. Rocca disproves also his Spanish maternal side from what he writes about Iberian Bell Beakers. Hope that he at least likes the Polish fatherland of his children. "ex illa nostra Italia" isn't just "one of those provinces in Italy ", but, as Davdiski says, I am prone in believing conspiracies!

C. PLINIUS IUNIO MAURICO SUO S. 1 Petis ut fratris tui filiae prospiciam maritum; quod merito mihi potissimum iniungis. Scis enim quanto opere summum illum virum suspexerim dilexerimque, quibus ille adulescentiam meam exhortationibus foverit, quibus etiam laudibus ut laudandus viderer effecerit. 2 Nihil est quod a te mandari mihi aut maius aut gratius, nihil quod honestius a me suscipi possit, quam ut eligam iuvenem, ex quo nasci nepotes Aruleno Rustico deceat. 3 Qui quidem diu quaerendus fuisset, nisi paratus et quasi provisus esset Minicius Acilianus, qui me ut iuvenis iuvenem — est enim minor pauculis annis — familiarissime diligit, reveretur ut senem. 4 Nam ita formari a me et institui cupit, ut ego a vobis solebam. Patria est ei Brixia, ex illa nostra Italia quae multum adhuc verecundiae frugalitatis, atque etiam rusticitatis antiquae, retinet ac servat. 5 Pater Minicius Macrinus, equestris ordinis princeps, quia nihil altius volvit; allectus enim a Divo Vespasiano inter praetorios honestam quietem huic nostrae — ambitioni dicam an dignitati? — constantissime praetulit. 6 Habet aviam maternam Serranam Proculam e municipio Patavio. Nosti loci mores: Serrana tamen Patavinis quoque severitatis exemplum est. Contigit et avunculus ei P. Acilius gravitate prudentia fide prope singulari. In summa nihil erit in domo tota, quod non tibi tamquam in tua placeat. 7 Aciliano vero ipsi plurimum vigoris industriae, quamquam in maxima verecundia. Quaesturam tribunatum praeturam honestissime percucurrit, ac iam pro se tibi necessitatem ambiendi remisit. 8 Est illi facies liberalis, multo sanguine multo rubore suffusa, est ingenua totius corporis pulchritudo et quidam senatorius decor. Quae ego nequaquam arbitror neglegenda; debet enim hoc castitati puellarum quasi praemium dari. 9 Nescio an adiciam esse patri eius amplas facultates. Nam cum imaginor vos quibus quaerimus generum, silendum de facultatibus puto; cum publicos mores atque etiam leges civitatis intueor, quae vel in primis census hominum spectandos arbitrantur, ne id quidem praetereundum videtur. Et sane de posteris et his pluribus cogitanti, hic quoque in condicionibus deligendis ponendus est calculus. 10 Tu fortasse me putes indulsisse amori meo, supraque ista quam res patitur sustulisse. At ego fide mea spondeo futurum ut omnia longe ampliora quam a me praedicantur invenias. Diligo quidem adulescentem ardentissime sicut meretur; sed hoc ipsum amantis est, non onerare eum laudibus. Vale.
May 14, 2017 at 11:53 PM
Gioiello said...
You desire me to look out a proper husband for your niece: it is with justice you enjoin me that office. You know the high esteem and affection I bore that great man her father, and with what noble instructions he nurtured my youth, and taught me to deserve those praises he was pleased to bestow upon me. You could not give me, then, a more important, or more agreeable, commission; nor could I be employed in an office of higher honour, than that of choosing a young man worthy of being father of the grandchildren of Rusticus Arulenus; a choice I should be long in determining, were I not acquainted with Minutius Aemilianus, who seems formed for our purpose. He loves me with all that warmth of affection which is usual between young men of equal years (as indeed I have the advance of him but by a very few), and reveres me at the same time, with all the deference due to age; and, in a word, he is no less desirous to model himself by my instructions than I was by those of yourself and your brother. He is a native of Brixia, one of those provinces in Italy which still retain much of the old modesty, frugal simplicity, and even rusticity, of manner. He is the son of Minutius Macrinus, whose humble desires were satisfied with standing at the head of the equestrian order: for though he was nominated by Vespasian in the number of those whom that prince dignified with the praetorian office, yet, with an inflexible greatness of mind, he resolutely preferred an honourable repose, to the ambitious, shall I call them, or exalted, pursuits, in which we public men are engaged. His grandmother, on the mother's side, is Serrana Procula, of Patavium: you are no stranger to the character of its citizens; yet Serrana is looked upon, even among these correct people, as an exemplary instance of strict virtue, Acilius, his uncle, is a man of almost exceptional gravity, wisdom, and integrity. In short, you will find nothing throughout his family unworthy of yours. Minutius himself has plenty of vivacity, as well as application, together with a most amiable and becoming modesty. He has already, with considerable credit, passed through the offices of quaestor, tribune, and praetor; so that you will be spared the trouble of soliciting for him those honourable employments. He has a fine, well-bred, countenance, with a ruddy, healthy complexion, while his whole person is elegant and comely and his mien graceful and senatorian: advantages, I think, by no means to be slighted, and which I consider as the proper tribute to virgin innocence. I think I may add that his father is very rich. When I contemplate the character of those who require a husband of my choosing, I know it is unnecessary to mention wealth; but when I reflect upon the prevailing manners of the age, and even the laws of Rome, which rank a man according to his possessions, it certainly claims some regard; and, indeed, in establishments of this nature, where children and many other circumstances are to be duly weighed, it is an article that well deserves to be taken into the account. You will be inclined, perhaps, to suspect that affection has had too great a share in the character I have been drawing, and that I have heightened it beyond the truth: but I will stake all my credit, you will find everything far beyond what I have represented. I love the young fellow indeed (as he justly deserves) with all the warmth of a most ardent affection; but for that very reason I would not ascribe more to his merit than I know it will bear. Farewell.
May 14, 2017 at 11:54 PM



those notes by pliny the Younger who was born in Como just refers to a friend from Brescia . It's term of Italy is still a geographical term until 17 march 1861.............if you deny this, you are saying that the Italian constitution, based on historical fact is wrong
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