Bosch ship


Posts: 2410
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:23 am
Another great thanks to parasar, the only sober on board:

Today, 04:28 AM #87 GailT Posts 467
Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
I think I inferred it based on your instance that folks would jump off bridges if Bell Beaker geneflow will be proven to come out of Iberia. I don't think anyone has sold the farm on specific haplogroup H sub-groups not expanding from Iberia
mtDNA H expanded from the Middle East to Europe (including Iberia) in the Neolithic, perhaps reaching Iberia by a Mediterranean route, and then expanding from Iberia into other parts of Europe post-Neolithic. But H was almost certainly expanding from the MIddle East and the Steppe via multiple routes and multiple waves of migration during the last 8000 years. But as Rich suggests, we really need to discuss these migrations in terms of specific subclades of H because H is extremely diverse with hundreds of subclades, most of which are not yet named.
For those who argue that H arrived in Europe in the Mesolithic (which has been debated many times here) - yes, this is possible, but we still don't have well documented evidence for this. Perhaps more full sequence samples will show some H arriving before the first farmers, but it's now clear that it H arrived primarily with farmers.
Today, 04:51 AM #88 parasar Posts 1,531
Quote Originally Posted by GailT View Post
mtDNA H expanded from the Middle East to Europe (including Iberia) in the Neolithic, perhaps reaching Iberia by a Mediterranean route, and then expanding from Iberia into other parts of Europe post-Neolithic. But H was almost certainly expanding from the MIddle East and the Steppe via multiple routes and multiple waves of migration during the last 8000 years. But as Rich suggests, we really need to discuss these migrations in terms of specific subclades of H because H is extremely diverse with hundreds of subclades, most of which are not yet named.
For those who argue that H arrived in Europe in the Mesolithic (which has been debated many times here) - yes, this is possible, but we still don't have well documented evidence for this. Perhaps more full sequence samples will show some H arriving before the first farmers, but it's now clear that it H arrived primarily with farmers.


If there were any farmers arriving from the Mid East to Europe. Expanded in the Neolithic within Europe, yes that looks very likely.

Posts: 2410
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:49 pm
And thanks also to Jean Lohizun:

"Needless to say I disagree based on the presence of mt-DNA H in Guipuzcoa (Unpublished from Thesis), Karelia, and the Samara (David Reich personal communication) Mesolithic Samples".

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