HV13


Posts: 2406
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:36 am
Humanist ("Bontà sua" we would say in Italian) writes this on Anthrogenica:
"The Armenian FGS sample is that of my Armenian second great-grandmother.
It is interesting that yet again, Italians appear to have a mtDNA connection to this general area (Mesopotamia/Armenia/Persia). This is indeed a recurring theme that should definitely be explored by academia in my opinion"
after that I am saying this from years and above all for Y R1b1 and subclades.
These are the samples of HV13:
CRS 263 750 1438 2706 4769 7028 8860 15326
HV
HV13 T16357C

1. HM852828(Iranian 30) Schoenberg HV13 17-MAR-2011
T72C A263G T310C A750G A1438G A2706G A4769G C7028T T8551N A8774G A8860G C9027T G10143A A11101G T12879C A15326G T16311C T16357C
2. JF700125(Armenian) FTDNA HV13 11-APR-2011
T152C A263G 309.1C 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G T3290C A4769G C7028T A8860G A11002G A15326G C16184T T16209C T16357C T16519C
3. JX153457(Italy) Raule HV13 10-JAN-2014
A200G A263G 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G T3290C A4769G C7028T A8860G A15326G T16093C C16355T T16357C
4. KC911298(Iran) Derenko HV13 20-NOV-2013
A263G 309.1C 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G A4769G C7028T A8774G A8860G C9027T G10143A A11101G T12879C A15326G T16311C T16357C
5. KC911612(Iran) Derenko HV13 20-NOV-2013
T72C A263G 309.1C 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G A4769G C7028T A8774G A8860G C9027T G10143A A11101G A15326G T16311C T16357C
------------------------------------------------------
The unique sample taken into account from Behar 2012b is this:
Sample Id: MC20823 NCBI Id: JF700125
Private Mutations: [A Personal or Private Mutation is a marker (SNP) you have that is not part of the defining markers list for this haplogroup.] T3290C; A11002G; C16184T; T16209C;
Topologically Missing: [A 'Missing' Mutation is a marker (SNP) that is part of the defining list of markers for this haplogroup that you do not have.] C152T(L2'3'4'5'6);
Reference: FamilyTreeDNA
----------------------------
Of course the Iranian samples belong to an unique subclade of HV13 and very likely Iran isn't the origin of the haplogroup, not having more ancient subclades close to the origin.
T3290C is a rare mutation. It appears only 4 times in the tree mutations, and we may presuppose that for that mutation the Armenian and the Italian sample are linked.
Which does derive from which?
The Armenian sample has the mutations:
T152C 309.1C 315.1C T3290C A11002G C16184T T16209C T16519C
The Italian sample has the mutations:
A200G 315.1C T3290C T16093C C16355T
It seems that the Italian sample is closer to HV13*, but other samples in the future will be able to say something more careful.

Posts: 2406
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:39 am
These samples from Mitosearch:

9C3A9 184T, 209C, 357C, 519C 152C, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C
Displaying User ID: 9C3A9
Mutations
HVR1 HVR2
1. 16184T 00152C
2. 16209C 00263G
3. 16357C 00309.1C
4. 16519C 00315.1C
Haplogroup: HV
Tested with: Family Tree DNA
Contact person: Paul G Contact this user
Most distant known maternal ancestor on the direct female line
First Name: Shoushan
Last Name: Davida
Year Born: About 1900
Year Died: About 1935
Country of Origin: Iran
Additional information about Maternal Line:
Armenian-Assyrian. Maternal (mtDNA) line is Armenian. From northwest Iran.

MSZCR 093C, 184T, 355T, 357C 200G, 263G, 315C
Displaying User ID: MSZCR
Mutations
HVR1 HVR2
1. 16093C 00200G
2. 16184T 00263G
3. 16355T 00315C
4. 16357C
Haplogroup: HV
Tested with: Other - Genebase
Contact person: Susan Osburn Contact this user
Most distant known maternal ancestor on the direct female line
First Name: Elizabeth
Last Name: Hill
Year Born: About 1769
Year Died: About 1820
Country of Origin: Rowan County, North Carolina, USA
Latitude: 35 deg 40 min 6 sec N
Longitude: 80 deg 28 min 43 sec W
Additional information about Maternal Line:
Earliest ancestor was member of Moravian Christian sect (not necessarily related to origin in Europe; attracted many other Americans)

PXW4V 184T, 355T, 357C 200G, 263G, 315.1C
Displaying User ID: PXW4V
Mutations
HVR1 HVR2
1. 16184T 00200G
2. 16355T 00263G
3. 16357C 00315.1C
Haplogroup: HV
Tested with: Family Tree DNA
Contact person: Shelly Newman Contact this user
Most distant known maternal ancestor on the direct female line
First Name: Rachel
Last Name: Mucatel
Year Born: About 1900
Year Died: About 1987
Country of Origin: Ankara, Turkey

RGW4U 183C, 189C, 357C, 519C
Displaying User ID: RGW4U
Search by Haplogroup > Displaying Users with Haplogroup HV > Displaying User
Mutations
HVR1 HVR2
1. 16183C Not Tested
2. 16189C
3. 16357C
4. 16519C
Haplogroup: HV
Tested with: Family Tree DNA
Contact person: Nancy Pfannkuche Contact this user
Most distant known maternal ancestor on the direct female line
First Name: Suzanne
Last Name: Geha
Year Born: About 1876
Year Died: 1926
Country of Origin: Lebanon
Additional information about Maternal Line:
Suzanne or Suzie or Susan Geha (Maiden Name) came to the United States as a promised bride to John Herbert Nasser who was 20 years older than her. Her marriage license said she was 21 yrs old, But I think she was younger. I am also looking to see if any of her sisters or brothers came to the USA.

Posts: 2406
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:34 am
To add to the other samples:

Displaying User ID: 7CAU9
Mutations
HVR1 HVR2
1. 16184T 00200G
2. 16355T 00263G
3. 16357C 00315.1C

Haplogroup: HV*
Tested with: Family Tree DNA
Contact person: Miriam Marceta (Crawford) Roberts Contact this user
Most distant known maternal ancestor on the direct female line
First Name: Minnie
Last Name: Stump
Year Born: About 1880
Year Died: About 1955
Country of Origin: Pennsylvania, USA
Additional information about Maternal Line:
Minnie Stump m. Alfred Morton & Lived in Frankfort,KS Their daughter Mae Madeline Morton m. Milton Henry Crawford & lived on a farm e. of Vermillion, KS. Miriam Marceta Crawford b. Oct 8, 1929, m. Kenneth Earl Roberts Jan 27, 1952.

Posts: 228
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:16 pm
Location: Kangastan
YDNA:
N-L1034
MtDNA:
B5a1a
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:40 am
Gioiello wrote:Of course the Iranian samples belong to an unique subclade of HV13 and very likely Iran isn't the origin of the haplogroup, not having more ancient subclades close to the origin.
T3290C is a rare mutation. It appears only 4 times in the tree mutations, and we may presuppose that for that mutation the Armenian and the Italian sample are linked.
Which does derive from which?
The Armenian sample has the mutations:
T152C 309.1C 315.1C T3290C A11002G C16184T T16209C T16519C
The Italian sample has the mutations:
A200G 315.1C T3290C T16093C C16355T
It seems that the Italian sample is closer to HV13*, but other samples in the future will be able to say something more careful.

Kazakh from Kazakhstan:
Attachments
FGC 250597 rCRS.JPG
FGC 250597.JPG

Posts: 2406
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:44 am
We can clearly see that the Iranian samples belong to an own subclade of HV13 with many mutations, demonstrating that this hg. is there from so long:
1. HM852828(Iranian 30) Schoenberg HV13 17-MAR-2011
T72C A263G T310C A750G A1438G A2706G A4769G C7028T T8551N A8774G A8860G C9027T G10143A A11101G T12879C A15326G T16311C T16357C
4. KC911298(Iran) Derenko HV13 20-NOV-2013
A263G 309.1C 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G A4769G C7028T A8774G A8860G C9027T G10143A A11101G T12879C A15326G T16311C T16357C
5. KC911612(Iran) Derenko HV13 20-NOV-2013
T72C A263G 309.1C 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G A4769G C7028T A8774G A8860G C9027T G10143A A11101G A15326G T16311C T16357C

This sample from Kazakh seems linked to the Armenian and the Italian ones:
A263G 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C A750G A1438G 1654C A2706G T3290C A4769G C7028T A8860G 9377G 11152C A15326G 16184T 16291T T16357C 16519C
2. JF700125(Armenian) FTDNA HV13 11-APR-2011
T152C A263G 309.1C 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G T3290C A4769G C7028T A8860G A11002G A15326G C16184T T16209C T16357C T16519C
3. JX153457(Italy) Raule HV13 10-JAN-2014
A200G A263G 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G T3290C A4769G C7028T A8860G A15326G T16093C C16355T T16357C
They have in common the mutation T3290C, but, having numerous autonomous mutations, they are separated from thousands of years.
The Italian sample continues to be closer to the HV13*, and linked to the Western European ones I quoted above even though tested only in HVRI and II.
Where is this hg. born? Like for other hgs I have frequently spoken in my posts I'd say either the Caucasus or the Alps.
For R1b1* I am asking from years that the Caucasian ones are tested for L389 and not only for P25. If they will be negative as the Indian samples, the origin is in he Alps and Western Europe and my theory of the Italian Refugium would be verified.

Posts: 2406
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:06 am
Interesting is this case:

PXW4V 184T, 355T, 357C 200G, 263G, 315.1C
Displaying User ID: PXW4V
Mutations
HVR1 HVR2
1. 16184T 00200G
2. 16355T 00263G
3. 16357C 00315.1C
Haplogroup: HV
Tested with: Family Tree DNA
Contact person: Shelly Newman Contact this user
Most distant known maternal ancestor on the direct female line
First Name: Rachel
Last Name: Mucatel
Year Born: About 1900
Year Died: About 1987
Country of Origin: Ankara, Turkey

It has the mutations of the Italian and Western European ones: 200G and 16355T even coming from Turkey, but probably it belongs to a Jewess and the surname Mucatel could be a corruption of the Italian Moscatelli, and this line could belong to Italian Jews, and, as I have demonstrated numerous times, very likely these Italian Jews are mostly of Italian Y or mt.
Of course an FMS would be interesting to see the coding region.

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