MtDNA J - In pre-Neolithic Europe!


Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:57 pm

MtDNA:
J1c3i
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:17 pm
Or at least that's how I interpret Figure 1 of this study:
Complete Mitochondrial Genomes Reveal Neolithic Expansion into Europe
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0032473

Image

So, J's were 4% amongst the pre-Neolithic Hunter-gatherer's and 12% amongst the Neolithic Farmers. I've always wondered why the cold tolerant J's stayed out of Europe prior to the Neolithic expansion...it's looks like they did make that trek prior to expansion of agriculture into Europe, even before the H's. I doubt this is the final word, but it makes more sense that J would have been in Europe at that time. I did a comparison of J in LBK burial sites, and J did rise dramatically during the early LBK period and gradually fell as time went on, however J was also shown to be present amongst the Hunter-gatherers, even early on. Unfortunately I posted it at DNA Forums and is therefore probably lost now.

Here's my spreadsheet "J's where are you from?" to try and track the subclades of J:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... n_US#gid=0

I'm J1c3, mismatch 185G, extras: 5442C 12858T 15758G. I'd like to compare with other J1c3's, run this tool:
http://vps1.jameslick.com/dna/mthap/
mtDNA: J1c3i
Husband/son: B1778 R-L226 Frawley from Rathkeale, Limerick, Ireland
Grandpa: 259187 R-L21 DF13+ Griffith from Cardigan, Wales
M102536
23andme V3 upgrade, I'm on openSNP
User avatar
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:30 pm

YDNA:
Z1297*
MtDNA:
J1c5a*
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:20 pm
From new paper?
M102+ Project

---
Grandpa: R1a-L366

Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:57 pm

MtDNA:
J1c3i
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:25 pm
Hot off the press: Published: March 13, 2012

Adding to my original train of thought: I'm guessing those pre-Neolithic J's were likely J2a and J1c1, and possibly other subclades of J1c. J2a and J1c1 have been noted in high frequencies amongst the Basque, prehistoric and historic:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 6/abstract

I've often wondered if the subclade of J1c didn't originate in Basque country, as well as it's subclades. I wish there was a study of J1c in the Near East...I've only seen studies of J1b subclades in the Near East. I know that J1c subclades occur in the Near East, but I'd be curious at what percentages and could it be back migration or due to other historical events?
mtDNA: J1c3i
Husband/son: B1778 R-L226 Frawley from Rathkeale, Limerick, Ireland
Grandpa: 259187 R-L21 DF13+ Griffith from Cardigan, Wales
M102536
23andme V3 upgrade, I'm on openSNP

Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:39 pm
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:19 pm
I am J2b1a1 and my ancestor is from West Cork on the Beara peninsula.I have done my FGS and match another family..Ann Turner has indicated we have a private mutation
J2b1a1a mitoDNA
50% Irish, 25% Norwegian, 25% Early Colonial US

Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:36 pm
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:35 pm
Little bit wrote:Hot off the press: Published: March 13, 2012

Adding to my original train of thought: I'm guessing those pre-Neolithic J's were likely J2a and J1c1, and possibly other subclades of J1c. J2a and J1c1 have been noted in high frequencies amongst the Basque, prehistoric and historic:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 6/abstract

I've often wondered if the subclade of J1c didn't originate in Basque country, as well as it's subclades. I wish there was a study of J1c in the Near East...I've only seen studies of J1b subclades in the Near East. I know that J1c subclades occur in the Near East, but I'd be curious at what percentages and could it be back migration or due to other historical events?


Historical events don't usually involve women migrating back do they?

Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:57 pm

MtDNA:
J1c3i
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:39 pm
Historical events don't usually involve women migrating back do they?


And why couldn't women migrate? History has shown many cases in which women migrate.
mtDNA: J1c3i
Husband/son: B1778 R-L226 Frawley from Rathkeale, Limerick, Ireland
Grandpa: 259187 R-L21 DF13+ Griffith from Cardigan, Wales
M102536
23andme V3 upgrade, I'm on openSNP
User avatar
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:48 pm
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:59 am
Little bit wrote:...
Here's my spreadsheet "J's where are you from?" to try and track the subclades of J:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... n_US#gid=0

I'm J1c3, mismatch 185G, extras: 5442C 12858T 15758G. I'd like to compare with other J1c3's, run this tool:
http://vps1.jameslick.com/dna/mthap/

Interesting infos. We have one sample data in our regional project tested mt-J with FTDNA and predicted J1c1 by Jim Logan. I hope the person or some maternal related will do an upgrade or 23andMe test to refine this.

Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:57 pm

MtDNA:
J1c3i
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:31 pm
Another study released elucidating maternal haplogroups in prehistoric Europe "Ancient DNA from Hunter-Gatherer and Farmer Groups from Northern Spain Supports a Random Dispersion Model for the Neolithic Expansion into Europe." Table 2 shows the different percentages of maternal haplogroups - H 44.9%, U 34.69%, K 8.169%, J 4.082% - HV/I/T2/X all around 2% each. Comparing to modern percentages in Europe, it appears that H has held it's own and most of the differentiation is in the frequency of U:
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_ ... ency.shtml

J, T, and K all have increased measurably (regionally) seemingly at the expense of U.

From the study:
Haplogroup J, also proposed as a marker for the spread of Neolithic farmers from Near East [13], in the present study has been found only in the ancient Neolithic groups from Navarre (NEO_NAVARRE), with a frequency of 6.25%. This value is the lowest of those described for Neolithic populations studied so far, which showed heterogeneous frequencies (NEO_FR: 20%, NEO_CAT: 18% and NEO_CE: 9.5%) [8], [23]–[25]. Regarding those lineages belonging to haplogroup J, their influence was not so important in the sites from Navarre compared to other European regions. This result highlights the complex biological patterns resulting from Neolithisation in contrast with the simpler and more evident cultural patterns.


http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi ... 34417-t002
mtDNA: J1c3i
Husband/son: B1778 R-L226 Frawley from Rathkeale, Limerick, Ireland
Grandpa: 259187 R-L21 DF13+ Griffith from Cardigan, Wales
M102536
23andme V3 upgrade, I'm on openSNP
User avatar
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:49 pm
Location: Cologne, Germany
YDNA:
I2a2a1c2a3
MtDNA:
K1b2a3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:31 pm
I think, that the term "pre-neolithic" is somewhat confusing. The first basque cemeteries researched revealed a similar distribution pattern as listed above, but we don't know yet, WHEN these new hgs J, T and K came to Europe. If they should be regarded as "pre-neolithic", they could belong to a sometimes proposed migration wave, that entered Europe around 12000 ybp. So the fate of original european huntergatherers (being replaced and pushed towards the Balticum) could have happened to the last huntergatherers in Near-east too.

Early research projects mostly only looked for controlregion mutations, so we cannot differentiate fine enough between subclades.
Y (FXHD8) mt (D9M4P), MurtiX, DE1(DE22), DOD219, M111723 (M001628)

Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:36 pm
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:43 pm
Is there a difference in the origin and spread of J1 vs J2? For example the Kalash tend to be J2 but other neighboring groups tend to be J1.
Next

Return to Haplogroup J (mtDNA)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron