New K Project Subgroups


Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:29 pm
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:22 pm
Hi all,

I have created many new Subgroups on the K Project website, based on the new Behar paper and Build 14 of the PhyloTree. For a description of the Subgroups and subclades see: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... romp14.htm

Bill Hurst
User avatar
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:03 am

MtDNA:
V9
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:57 am
Thanks Bill.

Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:13 am

YDNA:
I1
MtDNA:
K1a9,10
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:28 am
MY mtDNA subclade is Subclade K1a9,10. Does anyone have any knowledge of this subclade? I see that it was not listed. Our HVR-1 marker is 16224-16311 and our HVR-2 is 73-195-263. The closest my brother got in his search to match anyone else is Scotland and the Hebrides Islands. I think he got 3 matches. My maternal greatgrandmother came from Schotten, Hessen, Germany. Schotten means Scotland. It was founded in 779 by Irish/Scottish monks invited by Charlemagne. We are presuming that they came from the Hebrides Islands, probably Iona, and brought along retainers and other people who spoke the same language as workers. This is all purely speculation on our part. We could either be Scottish or Irish but we can't find enough other matches to really be able to tell. We would love some opinions or actual specifics if any are known. Thanks Gwenda

Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:29 pm
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:13 pm
gwendaelin wrote:MY mtDNA subclade is Subclade K1a9,10. Does anyone have any knowledge of this subclade? I see that it was not listed. Our HVR-1 marker is 16224-16311 and our HVR-2 is 73-195-263. The closest my brother got in his search to match anyone else is Scotland and the Hebrides Islands. I think he got 3 matches. My maternal greatgrandmother came from Schotten, Hessen, Germany. Schotten means Scotland. It was founded in 779 by Irish/Scottish monks invited by Charlemagne. We are presuming that they came from the Hebrides Islands, probably Iona, and brought along retainers and other people who spoke the same language as workers. This is all purely speculation on our part. We could either be Scottish or Irish but we can't find enough other matches to really be able to tell. We would love some opinions or actual specifics if any are known. Thanks Gwenda

Hi Gwenda,

"K1a9'10" might mean you are in an unlabeled group defined by 195C, which includes K1a9 and K1a10. Who gave you this assignment? What company did your test? Both K1a9 and K1a10 have additional HVR1 and HVR2 mutations. Either your company didn't test for those or you don't have them. I suspect the former. K1a9 is Ashkenazi Jewish, while K1a10 is only found in the British Isles and Scandinavia.

Bill Hurst

Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:13 am

YDNA:
I1
MtDNA:
K1a9,10
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:05 am
Bill---Thanks for answering. My brother ordered the test from genebase. I have his password so I can see the tests. I have read several of Bryan Sykes books and understand a bit but since I didn't order the packages and see what they said I am not as sure about the packages except to know that he tested as far as he could go. He is a medical doctor and very scientific so I know he investigated everything. I just do the genealogy and I know that my maternal greatgrandmother was born in Schotten, Hessen, Germany because I have her birth certificate and letters from her family in Scotten and a death notice about her father from Schotten.

My brother first ordered Advanced Combo Package (Y-DNA 44 Marker + mtDNA HVR-1 Test.) Then he ordered mtDNA Upgrade Package (From HVR-1 to HVR-1 + HVR-2.) Then he ordered Full mtDNA Sequencing Upgrade. This is what he got.
L(origin) L1-6, L2-6, L2,3,4,6, L3,4,6, L3,L4, L3, N, R, U, U2,3,4,7,8,9, U8, U8b,K, K, K1, K1a, K1a9,10----I am sure this is the same for all K's up to K1a but I included it anyway.

The simplified version:
Coding Region:497 - 750 - 1189 - 1438 - 1811 - 2706 - 3480 - 4769 - 7028 - 8860 - 9055 - 9698 - 10398 - 10550 - 11299 - 11467 - 11719 - 12308 - 12372 - 14167 - 14766 - 14798 - 15326
HVR-1:16224 - 16311
HVR-2:73 - 195 - 263

Then it said that----
He has tested positive for 497 in the Coding Region, which brings him away from K1 towards K1a.
He has tested positive for 195 in the HVR-2, which brings him away from K1a towards K1a9,10 and confirms his membership in mtDNA Subclade K1a9,10

His mtDNA HVR-2 differs from the Cambridge Reference Sequence (CRS) at the following sequence locations in the HVR-2:
Location, Mutation Type, Nucleotide Change
73 Substitution A > G
195 Substitution T > C
263 Substitution A > G
315 Insertion C > CC

This is as much as I can tell you right now. I'll go back in my emails to see where he found his couple of matches to people. I know one was the Isle of Lewis, one was Northern Scotland and one was the Hebrides Islands when they said where their maternal ancestor was from. They were all K1a9,10 but they also matched with HVR numbers.

At first we did think we were Ashkenazi Jewish, Schotten being near the Rhine Valley and our ancestors would have had to become first Catholic and then Lutheran but when the K1a9,10 came back maybe British Isles and Schotten being founded by Irish/Scottish monks and we matched to people in the Hebrides Islands this made more sense. Also all the females and some males in my German line down to me had red or strawberry blonde hair and blue or green (not hazel) eyes. This made us take notice as well. That is not to say that Germans can't have red hair and green eyes. I got our paternal Swedish very blonde coloring but my son has green eyes and so does my brother.

I don't know if I have helped you or not make a detirmination of what is happening, please let me know.
Thanks so much for writing back to me----Gwenda Elin Gustafson Malnati

Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:29 pm
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:28 pm
gwendaelin wrote:Bill---Thanks for answering. My brother ordered the test from genebase. I have his password so I can see the tests. I have read several of Bryan Sykes books and understand a bit but since I didn't order the packages and see what they said I am not as sure about the packages except to know that he tested as far as he could go. He is a medical doctor and very scientific so I know he investigated everything. I just do the genealogy and I know that my maternal greatgrandmother was born in Schotten, Hessen, Germany because I have her birth certificate and letters from her family in Scotten and a death notice about her father from Schotten.

My brother first ordered Advanced Combo Package (Y-DNA 44 Marker + mtDNA HVR-1 Test.) Then he ordered mtDNA Upgrade Package (From HVR-1 to HVR-1 + HVR-2.) Then he ordered Full mtDNA Sequencing Upgrade. This is what he got.
L(origin) L1-6, L2-6, L2,3,4,6, L3,4,6, L3,L4, L3, N, R, U, U2,3,4,7,8,9, U8, U8b,K, K, K1, K1a, K1a9,10----I am sure this is the same for all K's up to K1a but I included it anyway.

The simplified version:
Coding Region:497 - 750 - 1189 - 1438 - 1811 - 2706 - 3480 - 4769 - 7028 - 8860 - 9055 - 9698 - 10398 - 10550 - 11299 - 11467 - 11719 - 12308 - 12372 - 14167 - 14766 - 14798 - 15326
HVR-1:16224 - 16311
HVR-2:73 - 195 - 263

Then it said that----
He has tested positive for 497 in the Coding Region, which brings him away from K1 towards K1a.
He has tested positive for 195 in the HVR-2, which brings him away from K1a towards K1a9,10 and confirms his membership in mtDNA Subclade K1a9,10

His mtDNA HVR-2 differs from the Cambridge Reference Sequence (CRS) at the following sequence locations in the HVR-2:
Location, Mutation Type, Nucleotide Change
73 Substitution A > G
195 Substitution T > C
263 Substitution A > G
315 Insertion C > CC

This is as much as I can tell you right now. I'll go back in my emails to see where he found his couple of matches to people. I know one was the Isle of Lewis, one was Northern Scotland and one was the Hebrides Islands when they said where their maternal ancestor was from. They were all K1a9,10 but they also matched with HVR numbers.

At first we did think we were Ashkenazi Jewish, Schotten being near the Rhine Valley and our ancestors would have had to become first Catholic and then Lutheran but when the K1a9,10 came back maybe British Isles and Schotten being founded by Irish/Scottish monks and we matched to people in the Hebrides Islands this made more sense. Also all the females and some males in my German line down to me had red or strawberry blonde hair and blue or green (not hazel) eyes. This made us take notice as well. That is not to say that Germans can't have red hair and green eyes. I got our paternal Swedish very blonde coloring but my son has green eyes and so does my brother.

I don't know if I have helped you or not make a detirmination of what is happening, please let me know.
Thanks so much for writing back to me----Gwenda Elin Gustafson Malnati
Hi Gwenda,

OK, Genebase. They appear to be using K1a9,K1a10 to mean the branch above those two subclades, but not in either one. The branch is headed by 195C and also now includes K1a13, K1a14, K1a15, K1a16 and K1a26. I would show his subclade as "K1a + 195C." There are quite a few others in that branch without being in one of the lower subclades, but each of those has at least one extra mutation. The closest one I see is an unpublished one in the K Project with just an additional heteroplasmy, with an unknown origin. Another two have just a pair of 523 insertions; both trace to Scotland. One is on GenBank as JQ704907.

Bill Hurst

Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:13 am

YDNA:
I1
MtDNA:
K1a9,10
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:57 pm
Thanks Bill for answering my question. You just explained our mtDNA better than anything else I have found. It appears that not too many people in the area of Scotland that might have our mtDNA are investigating their DNA. It might take awhile for more to appear as it gets more popular or less expensive. I just have a feeling that our DNA is more likely located in very rural areas or on the western islands where people are just trying to make a living and have neither the time or the money to care about this. If anything new comes up about our subclade please post it for me. Thanks---Gwenda
User avatar
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:22 pm

YDNA:
N1c1a1a1a2 (L591+)
MtDNA:
I1a1a
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:34 am
Bill Hurst wrote:Hi all,

I have created many new Subgroups on the K Project website, based on the new Behar paper and Build 14 of the PhyloTree. For a description of the Subgroups and subclades see: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... romp14.htm

Bill Hurst


One K1c1c submitted to GenBank today
(New K1c1c: Defined by 9903C. Finland (but not only))

Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:29 pm
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:15 am
Jonik wrote:
Bill Hurst wrote:Hi all,

I have created many new Subgroups on the K Project website, based on the new Behar paper and Build 14 of the PhyloTree. For a description of the Subgroups and subclades see: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... romp14.htm

Bill Hurst


One K1c1c submitted to GenBank today
(New K1c1c: Defined by 9903C. Finland (but not only))


I'll watch for it. Oddly, the first dozen of so in K1c1c were all from Finland. Then the last two trace to Russia. Just when I think I have this stuff figured out, it takes a new turn.

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