K1d, K1e, K1f from the Italian Refugium


Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:55 am

YDNA:
R1b
MtDNA:
K1e
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:27 pm
Hi,


I seem to be the only one with the mutation 16260T. Does anyone know where this might have come from or if they have ever seen it before? These are my results. 73G 152C 263G

309.1C 315.1C 524.1A 524.1C 16140C 16224C 16260T 16311C 16519C.


Regards,

Tia Gray

Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:51 pm
scrubtech wrote:Hi,


I seem to be the only one with the mutation 16260T. Does anyone know where this might have come from or if they have ever seen it before? These are my results. 73G 152C 263G

309.1C 315.1C 524.1A 524.1C 16140C 16224C 16260T 16311C 16519C.


Regards,

Tia Gray


I posted above this hapotype which has 16260T, found in SMGF and come from USA:

73G 152C 263G 309.1C 315.1C 524.1A 524.1C 16140C 16224C 16260T 16311C 16519C
(USA)

It seems the same as yours.
Anyway it would be interesting an FMS to see your Coding Region.

This is a sample of K1e:

JX293716(Scotland) FTDNA Haplogroup [K1e] 15-JUL-2012
A73G T152C A263G 309.1C 315.1C 523.1C 523.2A A750G T1189C A1438G A1811G T1819C A2706G A3480G A4769G C7028T G8251A A8860G G9055A T9698C T10166C A10398G C10478T A10550G C10757T T11299C A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A C14142G C14167T C14766T T14798C A15326G T16140C T16224C T16311C T16362C T16519C

but you lack T16362C.

Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:55 am

YDNA:
R1b
MtDNA:
K1e
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:31 pm
Hi,


Here are my HVR1 and HVR2

A16129G T16140C T16187C C16189T T16223C T16224C G16230A C16260T T16278C T16362C
HVR2 DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS
C146T C195T A247G 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C 522.3A 522.4C

Here is my coding region.

A769G A825t A1018G T1189C A1811G T1819C A2758G C2885T A3480G T3594C G4104A T4312C G7146A T7256C A7521G G7805A G8251A T8468C T8655C G8701A G9055A C9540T T9698C T10166C C10478T A10550G T10664C A10688G C10757T C10810T C10873T C10915T T11299C A11467G A11914G A12308G G12372A T12705C G13105A G13276A T13506C T13650C C14142g C14167T T14798C


Regards,

Tia Gray

Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:52 pm
Your data are given in RSRS and have to be converted in rCRS. Anyway I am seeing that you have T16362C in HVRI and I don't understand why it wasn't reported before. Thus you are certainly K1e. I'll study your Coding Region and I'll write you later.

Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:11 pm
Samples like yours are known by Behar 2012b:

Sample Id: MC2098
Private Mutations: [A Personal or Private Mutation is a marker (SNP) you have that is not part of the defining markers list for this haplogroup.] 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C 522.3A 522.4C G7805A T10166C C10757T T16140C C16260T

How long ago have you been tested from FTDNA?

Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:55 am

YDNA:
R1b
MtDNA:
K1e
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:42 pm
Hi,

I tested with FTDNA in 2012 but I test first with Ancestry. I am not sure I understand you. Are you saying that I do not match everyone else on K1e or I have more mutations than everyone else? These are the extra mutation that FTDNA lists.


309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C 522.3A 522.4C G7805A T10166C C10757T T16140C C16260T

Regards,

Tia Gray

Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:58 pm
You can see that this sample is yours
Sample Id: MC2098
Private Mutations: [A Personal or Private Mutation is a marker (SNP) you have that is not part of the defining markers list for this haplogroup.] 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C 522.3A 522.4C G7805A T10166C C10757T T16140C C16260T

Behar 2012b used it for his Reassessment.
But your data could be easier to read if you download from FTDNA not the RSRS version but the rCRS, so we could compare them with the sample above.

Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:09 pm
All these samples used by Behar 2012b are related:

Sample Id: MC204
Private Mutations: [A Personal or Private Mutation is a marker (SNP) you have that is not part of the defining markers list for this haplogroup.] 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C 522.3A 522.4C T10166C C10757T T16140C
Sample Id: MC2098
Private Mutations: [A Personal or Private Mutation is a marker (SNP) you have that is not part of the defining markers list for this haplogroup.] 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C 522.3A 522.4C G7805A T10166C C10757T T16140C C16260T
Sample Id: MC3754
Private Mutations: [A Personal or Private Mutation is a marker (SNP) you have that is not part of the defining markers list for this haplogroup.] 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C 522.3A 522.4C T10166C C10757T T16140C
Country: United States
Geography: NC
Sample Id: MC3980
NCBI Id: JQ705538
Private Mutations: [A Personal or Private Mutation is a marker (SNP) you have that is not part of the defining markers list for this haplogroup.] T10166C; C10757T; T16140C;
Country: United Kingdom
Reference: Behar 2012b

Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:55 am

YDNA:
R1b
MtDNA:
K1e
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:29 pm
Hi,


Is there a paper on the reassessment by Behar? Where do I need to down load my data ? I have also tested at Nat Geo 2.0. When you say all these samples used by Behar 2012b are related, do you mean related to each other? I thought that K1e was from Italy. I see that they list it as the UK.


Regards,

Tia Gray

Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:35 am
scrubtech wrote:Hi,
Is there a paper on the reassessment by Behar? Where do I need to down load my data ? I have also tested at Nat Geo 2.0. When you say all these samples used by Behar 2012b are related, do you mean related to each other? I thought that K1e was from Italy. I see that they list it as the UK.
Regards, Tia Gray


Hi Gray, the data you posted come probably from an FMS of FTDNA and on your FTDNA account you may download the rCRS data by clicking on them and not on RSRS.
Yes, as William Hurst said (he is the administrator if the mtDNA K Project c/o FTDNA), these samples come above all from the Isles. That their origin is in Italy is my theory: my K1a1b1e, found also in the Isles with the mutation 477C, is certainly born in Italy and very likely in Tuscany, and the most ancient subclade of K-16362C, K1f, has been found in the Italian Alps: Oetzi, 5300 years ago. Nothing similar has been found in the Isles.
My theory is just that the Isles were peopled by people coming from Italy: see what I think having demonstrated also for Y R-L51 (see Anthrogenica).
Of course this is my theory.
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