The last adventure of Miss Balaresque

Any discussions regarding y-DNA markers, results or questions.

Posts: 2323
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:22 am
European Journal of Human Genetics advance online publication 14 January 2015; doi: 10.1038/ejhg.2014.285
"Y-chromosome descent clusters and male differential reproductive success: young lineage expansions dominate Asian pastoral nomadic populations"
After that the citizen scientists, the amateurs, have demonstrated that STRs are unreliable, that the CMH (Cohen Modal Haplotype) has no meaning, that also the AMH (Atlantic Modal Haplotype) is deceitful, these scholars have written a paper in which they deduce single descents from 9 STRs! Ridiculous! These people may belong to far related ancestors and not to an unique ones.
The R haplotypes (beyond the huge presence of R1a we did know) belong to different cluster/subclades: from R2 (x M124), to R-M73, to a few R-L23 etc. A few samples, in line with what we knew of the Caucasus and Central Asia, and very likely they are far from their origin, I think the Italian Refugium and Western Europe.

Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:59 am

YDNA:
Adam-L74; R1a-YP4700
MtDNA:
H14a
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:30 pm
Gioiello wrote: European Journal of Human Genetics advance online publication 14 January 2015; doi: 10.1038/ejhg.2014.285
"Y-chromosome descent clusters and male differential reproductive success: young lineage expansions dominate Asian pastoral nomadic populations"
After that the citizen scientists, the amateurs, have demonstrated that STRs are unreliable....

It has long been known yet.
During the study, the oldest African branch of the African I demanded that the STR mutations have nothing to say, because for a long period of time very falsify.
I presented my simulation results to AKlyosov and Różański. They would not believe it, because they already had his own theory of non-African origin of modern man, whose phylogenetic tree SNP denies.
.

Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:59 am

YDNA:
Adam-L74; R1a-YP4700
MtDNA:
H14a
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:30 pm
Gioiello wrote: European Journal of Human Genetics advance online publication 14 January 2015; doi: 10.1038/ejhg.2014.285
"Y-chromosome descent clusters and male differential reproductive success: young lineage expansions dominate Asian pastoral nomadic populations"
After that the citizen scientists, the amateurs, have demonstrated that STRs are unreliable....

It has long been known yet.
During the study, the oldest African branch of the African I demanded that the STR mutations have nothing to say, because for a long period of time very falsify.
I presented my simulation results to AKlyosov and Różański. They would not believe it, because they already had his own theory of non-African origin of modern man, whose phylogenetic tree SNP denies.
.
User avatar
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:19 am
Location: Family Line Veneto ( italy ) since ~1600
YDNA:
T1a2-Z19945
MtDNA:
H95a
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:10 pm
Gioiello wrote:European Journal of Human Genetics advance online publication 14 January 2015; doi: 10.1038/ejhg.2014.285
"Y-chromosome descent clusters and male differential reproductive success: young lineage expansions dominate Asian pastoral nomadic populations"
After that the citizen scientists, the amateurs, have demonstrated that STRs are unreliable, that the CMH (Cohen Modal Haplotype) has no meaning, that also the AMH (Atlantic Modal Haplotype) is deceitful, these scholars have written a paper in which they deduce single descents from 9 STRs! Ridiculous! These people may belong to far related ancestors and not to an unique ones.
The R haplotypes (beyond the huge presence of R1a we did know) belong to different cluster/subclades: from R2 (x M124), to R-M73, to a few R-L23 etc. A few samples, in line with what we knew of the Caucasus and Central Asia, and very likely they are far from their origin, I think the Italian Refugium and Western Europe.


As recently stated to me...the benefit of STR is only within the Ydna group that is tested/compared and unreliable when mixing Ydna groups
Fathers mtdna - T2b17 ...back to 1860 Bucciol line
Grandfathers mtdna - T1a1e ...back to 1820 Mestriner line
Sons Mtdna - K1a4 ....back to 1840 Tesser line
Maternal grandfather ydna - Ild-P109

Posts: 2323
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:27 pm
stoeni wrote:As recently stated to me...the benefit of STR is only within the Ydna group that is tested/compared and unreliable when mixing Ydna groups


Within the same haplogroup... I'd say between people who have the same final SNP, but also to say at which level should be this final SNP is difficult, because the Y is a monophiletic descent and the haplogroups are simply separated by SNPs we chose as final ones. I understand that this concept is difficult in the Alpine zone, but, as the same SNPs risk to be a little reliable (see the Big Y results), the STRs may become useful at last... but only if used con juicio. And also this time very likely they have failed many hg assignement: see the R* which could be also something else: some R2-M479, others also Q1a2 etc.

Posts: 2323
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:18 am
Gioiello wrote: And also this time very likely they have failed many hg assignement: see the R* which could be also something else: some R2-M479, others also Q1a2 etc.


The haplotypes labelled R* with DYS392=10 are hg. R2-M479*
The haplotypes labelled R* with DYS392=17 are very likely hg. Q1a2. See this sample from India:
HTDQ7 Din Unknown
13 23 xx 10 13 17 12 12 11 13 17 29 18 10 10 11 11 26 14 22 xx xx xx xx xx 11 10 19 21 13 xx xx xx xx xx 12 11 xx 12 12 14 20 11 xx 13 11 12 31 26

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