T1a1 - Ireland


Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:24 pm
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:27 pm
I am an Irish T1a1, and have been FGS tested too.

Are there any other T1a1 or T1a1 FGS individuals here??
Y-DNA: R-L21 M222+ PF1169+ (FTDNA: 16646, YSearch: DFG6F)
mtDNA: T1a1
Genbank: JN880467

I am currently the M222+ individual most divergent from the M222 modal, at 25, 37, 67 and 111 markers.

I grew up in Co Laois, Ireland, and have ancestry from there (Midlands) and South East Ireland. Today I live in Brooklyn, New York, US

R1b-PF1169:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b ... on=results

Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:13 am

YDNA:
R-L2
MtDNA:
T1a1
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:15 am
I'm a T1a1, too. Mary Hunter, b.1813, Kendal, Cumbria, England. I'm FGS tested, too (FTDNA).

Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:41 pm

YDNA:
J2a3h L70
MtDNA:
T1a
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:20 pm
I am T1a1 according to Prof. Pike but only T1a according to the latest phylogeny of J. J. Logan. I have 30 FGS or FMS matches since I have only the basic 23 mutations of the coding region. Pike assigns an age to his 'T1a' of 26,000 years old, Logan to his 'T1' of less than 11,000 years old. My matches are from the U.K. (almost a third), Ireland, northern Europe, Norway (2) and Sweden (2), Finland and Ukraine. Then there is me, Jewish from western Ukraine (previously Austrian Galicia). I have been puzzling for some time how I fit in. There is a Jewish FGS group amounting to three persons at the present time. I had been corresponding with one member before we upgraded. I expected to be his match. They are T1a1j according to Pike, T1a9 according to Logan. I must conclude that their common ancestress is rather distant from mine.
When I look at my matches I see a pattern, except for me: Viking /Rus migrations from Norway to the west and from Sweden to the east. Whatever the possible age of the common ancestress, even if 26,000 years is a possibility, I do not know what the statistics are for two separate maternal lines having no mutations beyond the 23 for 26,000 years, 10,000 years, 2,000 years etc. I would say that the pattern suggests a common ancestress living between 1,500 to 2,000 years ago in Scandinavia. What of my ancestry? Looking at the Rus penetration east, there was a window of opportunity for a conversion, in Kiev, where Rus and Jews both lived, in the late 10th and early 11th centuries before the conversion of the ruling princes to Christianity, and while Khazaria still had considerable power.
One more twist perhaps is a strange superstition of my mother. She is rather apologetic but very frightened to put keys on a table, rather strange for a British born woman. The source of this superstition was her mother, born in Austrian Galicia, though brought up in London. This definitely is not a Jewish superstition. I looked it up. Swedes, Russians and Ukrainians have such a fear. I looked further. Keys were very important in Sweden in the pre-Viking and Viking period. They are found in women's graves and were in the custody of the women, who wore them around their necks. I would think it unlikely that a non-Jewish Ukrainian acquaintance would have frightened an ancestress of mine into adopting such a superstition. Being introduced into the family by an ancestress of 1,100 years ago might make better sense, although 1,100 years is a long time.
These are my speculations, for what they are worth.

Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:13 am

YDNA:
R-L2
MtDNA:
T1a1
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:19 pm
SHV, Do you and I, match with FGS? I have the same mutations, as, the Ashkenazi group with regard to the FGS T Project. Pike has me, as, T1a1.

Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:41 pm

YDNA:
J2a3h L70
MtDNA:
T1a
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:54 pm
SHV, Do you and I, match with FGS? I have the same mutations, as, the Ashkenazi group with regard to the FGS T Project. Pike has me, as, T1a1.
Elly,
As far as I recall from your communications in DNA Forums you have 24 mutations in the coding region (FGS/FMS) and one match with a Mr. S of German origin. Have you had any other matches in the meantime? If you do not have 31 matches as I have you must have more than 23 mutations. Perhaps Dr. Pike did not make a subgroup for your mutation since it had too few members and kept you at T1a1. The Ashkenazi group T1a1j has 4 members (I forgot they recently gained a new match) all Jewish. I think I can reveal that their 24th mutation is 8530G. I don't think you have that. You certainly match them and me on HVR1 and HVR2, but not in the coding region.
Your 24th mutation may have arisen 1000 years ago or 3,000 or 4,000 years ago. If you have few matches and Dr. Pike did not make it a sub-group, it may be relatively recent and may have appeared in a descendant of the common ancestress of T1a1(23 mutations) whom I suggested as a guess may have lived about 2,000 years ago. You may be a closer relative of some of my 31 matches than I am, or you may be much more distantly related. It is difficult to know.

Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:41 pm

YDNA:
J2a3h L70
MtDNA:
T1a
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:20 pm
While I was writing my previous post, my 32nd FGS/FMS match appeared. His direct female line is of Prussian origin.

Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:13 am

YDNA:
R-L2
MtDNA:
T1a1
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:32 am
SHV, To date, I have no FGS matches; thanks for your reply.

Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:41 pm

YDNA:
J2a3h L70
MtDNA:
T1a
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:26 pm
Having looked at M. Pala's (et alii) article referred to in Little Bit's thread on J&T etc., I now have to revise what I wrote previously. Obviously the FTDNA results reflect its largely American clientele in giving a preponderance to persons of British, German and Scandinavian origin. What I wrote about the possible Viking connection of the Dr Pike's T1a1 and J.J. Logan's T1a (basic 23 coding region mutations) may have some basis for part of the haplogroup, but the common ancestress of the whole group may have lived 7,000 years ago. Pala's data includes members with origins far away from northern Europe.
She calls the 23 mutation group (including some members with an additional one or two rare mutations) T1a1a1 (based on Behar's recent proposal to move away from the arbitrary CRS). She describes the 23 mutation group itself as the root type of T1a1a1 and states that ' it is very unusual among whole-genome mtDNA types in that it is shared between multiple geographically distant individuals from Scandinavia, the Baltic, the North Caucasus, Anatolia and Morocco.' So I have more FGS matches I did not know about. I shall have to reflect and research further on the subject.

Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:34 pm

YDNA:
R-L11*
MtDNA:
T1a1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:32 pm
according to GEDMATCH origins for the female descendants of my T1a1 are for almost probably Slavonic 70 % with 10 % Finnish, 5 % ouralien, 3 % Volga, 2 % aborigine of Scandinavia. Corresponding matches bring back especially towards Germany, it is in fact a balto-Slavonic contour what would well enough seem to correspond. It would be descendants for about 7000 years in Europe of migrants farmer according to TREEDNA

Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:34 pm

YDNA:
R-L11*
MtDNA:
T1a1
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:27 pm
I have make error, it is 15 % Finnish and ouralian 7 %

Return to Haplogroup T (mtDNA)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest