U3 and the Levant


Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 10:26 pm

YDNA:
r1b1b2
MtDNA:
u3a2
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:14 am
Hi Gail

the only 23andme results I have been involved with are two ladies who gave me their profile; One was from Scotland and turned out to be U3C, which is why I had contacted her in the first place as this was before U3C had been officially noted by Phylotree and I wanted to verify that there was indeed a branch of U3 that was in what is now called the U3ac line but didn't have all the coding differences of U3a; at the time I called it pre-u3a; the second lady was from either the Netherlands or Germany, she was rather shy about her exact whereabouts, who had a change at 200 like myself and I wanted to verify whether she was U3a2 or not;

23andme does not do a full genomic test so although they test a number of coding sites they don't test them all; unfortunately they do not test 11050 (u3a2 marker); I am now fairly sure that sometimes you get a change at 11050 without a change at 200; a change at 200 without a change at 11050 or a change in both like in my case; I think eventually that U3a2 will be identified by only the change at 11050 and 200 will be a branch off that and that 200 without 11050 will be a separate branch;

Interestingly the second woman was not U3a1 as she did not have the change at 3010 which is its primary subbranch marker.

as for the timeline I think some data is available to you that wasn't available to Behar so your own timelines may be somewhat more accurate although they are all pretty rough as you know.

As for the route into Europe, right now it appears to me that U3a traveled anciently both through the Mediterranian and up the Danube; so I think the question for U3a1 was where the transition at 3010 first appeared, in the Mediterranian or the Danube valley
I tend to favor the Danube valley but could be proven wrong by more FGS sequences; The Cyprus study is interesting (called Aphrodite something) It had 8 U3 sequences out of 200, 4%, 5 were U3b, 1 was U3c, 1 was U3a2 (matches Sweitzer), and one with a transition at 16294 (rather unique) is an undertermined A but likely not U3a1; This looks a lot like the Near East distributions, with B dominating and most of the other a sequences being before U3a1, and at about 4%, typical of the levant; So the eastern Meditteranian could almost be viewed as an extension of the Levant;


Jim

Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:38 am
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:27 am
jdef40 wrote: I am now fairly sure that sometimes you get a change at 11050 without a change at 200; a change at 200 without a change at 11050 or a change in both like in my case; I think eventually that U3a2 will be identified by only the change at 11050 and 200 will be a branch off that and that 200 without 11050 will be a separate branch;

....

The Cyprus study is interesting (called Aphrodite something) It had 8 U3 sequences out of 200, 4%, 5 were U3b, 1 was U3c, 1 was U3a2 (matches Sweitzer), and one with a transition at 16294 (rather unique) is an undertermined A but likely not U3a1; This looks a lot like the Near East distributions, with B dominating and most of the other a sequences being before U3a1, and at about 4%, typical of the levant; So the eastern Meditteranian could almost be viewed as an extension of the Levant;

Jim


Just to confuse things a little more: AY882383 has the mutation 200G while JQ618033 does not, but they do both share an extra mutation at 16274. This might seem to suggest that JQ618033 has a back mutation at 200. However, there is also a U3a sample HQ436348 that also has 16274. So perhaps 16274 happened independently in these samples. We will definitely need some more FMS samples to sort this out. I don't think I have seen the Cyprus study, do you have a PDF or a link? Also, let me know if/when you have time to be an co-administrator, and I'll add you as an admin for the U3 project.

thanks,
Gail

Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 10:26 pm

YDNA:
r1b1b2
MtDNA:
u3a2
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:31 am
gail

here is the link to the cyprus study

ftp://ftp.cordis.europa.eu/pub/inco2/do ... rodite.pdf

look at the phylogenetic tree diagram

I'm at a conference right now but will email you at the U3 site when that is over concerning your administrative question
that will give me time also to look over the genbank references you made

Jim

Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:19 pm

MtDNA:
U3a1a
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:54 pm
Hi Everyone,
I recently received my MtDNA Results from FTDNA,and I have joined the MtDNA Group U3. I was placed into Hg U3a1a,and would like to know the differences in origins between Hg's U3a,U3b,and U3c. I had my entire MtDNA sequenced,and I am hoping that by doing this more information may be elicited from my results for myself and others.

I do have known Ashkenazic Jewish history on my Maternal side. Apparently, I have a Sephardic connection found now from Turkey too. My Ancestral Origins results include the Syrian Arab Republic,Israel,and India along with the full Western ,and Central European Countries in the mix. Can anyone help me understand the migration patterns of the Ashkenazic,and Sephardic Jewish People with World History Events? Any assistance would be much appreciated!!!

Thank you,
Marina

Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:38 am
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:51 am
Marina - I'm the co-admin for the U3 project and I just sent you an email with a little more detail on your results. Vince wrote a pretty good description of U3 on the project page:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/mtDNAU3

U3c has been identified in only two test results in the Azeri people.

best,
Gail

Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:38 am
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:52 am
Jim - sorry I have not been back in touch. I did not get a response from Vince. Are you still interested in joining the project as a co-admin? I can try to add you.

thanks,
Gail
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