When did the father of the contemporary man live?


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YDNA:
Adam-L74; R1a-YP4700
MtDNA:
H14a
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:00 pm
The SNPs overall quantity already enables to date
the A* haplogroup, i.e. chromosomal Adam, of the father of all contemporary people.

In one line below A* (from the A1 to R1b haplogroups) at present is 163 SNPs.

In well tested lines of the R1b group,
from R-M 343 to the bottom, there are the following SNP amounts:
e.g. L257=29, L1=28, L45=35, L148=35, Z343=34, M167=28, M228=30, Z35=30, L562=30, Z144=30, L705=29, L554=28, L362=29 and L658=31.
So below R1 on average 30.4 SNP.

T. Karafet for R1 haplogroup is assigning 18.500 years, what for 1 SNP is determining 617 years.
A. Klyosov however 23.000 years, what for 1 SNP is determining 767 years.

Under BT haplogroup is at present 117 SNP.
T. Karafet for CT haplogroup is assigning 70.000 years, what for 1 SNP is determining 598 years.
A. Klyosov is assingning 64.000 years, what for 1 SNP is determining 547 years.

This way according to Karafet one SNP is falling on average for 607 years;
and according to Klyosov - for 657 years.
In total 1 SNP - for 632 years.

It is facilitating A* (the father of A0 and A1) haplogroup dating - below it at present is 163 SNPs.
163 x 632 yers = 103.000 yers bp.
(Stan P.)

Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:59 am

YDNA:
Adam-L74; R1a-YP4700
MtDNA:
H14a
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 3:02 pm
Helicobacter unexpectedly is confirming the time Adam's ?
It seems, that yes! 103,000 ybp.

Age of the Association between Helicobacter pylori and Man
Moodley Y. et al. 2012

http://www.plospathogens.org/article/in ... at.1002693
Summary:
We previously showed that the population history of H. pylori may be used as a marker for human migrations, including the demonstration that humans carried H. pylori out of Africa 60,000 years ago during their recent global expansions. But how long were humans infected by H. pylori prior to the out-of-Africa event? Here we showed that chimpanzees in Central-East Africa do not possess Helicobacter-like bacteria, as would have been expected for pathogen-host co-evolution over millions of years. Using H. pylori gene sequences isolated from San, a group of click-speaking hunter-gatherers, and numerous other sources, we calculated that humans have been infected with H. pylori for at least 88,000–116,000 years. Phylogenetic comparisons showed similar evolutionary histories for human and H. pylori lineages and suggest that this association stemmed from a single host jump. We showed that hpAfrica2, the most divergent H. pylori population, arose in the San and that their progenitors were the source of H. acinonychis which was acquired by large felines approximately 50,000 years ago. Furthermore, our data provided clear evidence for a recent second exodus Out of Africa in the last 52,000 years which was essential for the formation of the hybrid population that currently infects Europeans.


88,000-116,000 it on average 102,000 ybp
This full confirming our dating is: 103,000 ybp. From the unexpected side!

Apparently Adam, rather than Ewa, became infected with Helicobacter :oops:
(she 177.000 ybp - according to Behar et al., 2012)
Stan
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Location: USA
YDNA:
J2a1i (father)
MtDNA:
I1a1b
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 10:58 pm
Dear Stan,

Surely our ancestors could have lived for any length of time before acquiring Heliobacter pylori. They only gave that estimate as the probable time since humans have been infected by the organism, not an estimate of the time since humans have existed. And, "at least" does not mean "at most"! "At least" means it could have been earlier, but not much later.

More interesting to me was the assertion that they have evidence of multiple out of Africa migrations. This could be valuable data, we'll have to see how it fits into the other evidence.

Bonnie

Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:59 am

YDNA:
Adam-L74; R1a-YP4700
MtDNA:
H14a
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:30 pm
Adam’s time (a new way of calculating).

Based on studies is generally accepted, that if genealogies of the man and the chimpanzee went separate ways 5 million ybp, in one base pair of the human genome is 0.000,000,001 SNP per year.
But if how now is judged, it is took place 6 million ybp, then is found in one base pair 0.000,000,000,833 SNP per year.
But if in human NRY the mutation is happening 4.8 times more quickly than in the entire genome, then in one base pair (in NRY) is appearing 0.000,000,004 SNP per year.
[Continuation erased by author]
Last edited by Atim on Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

Posts: 587
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YDNA:
Adam-L74; R1a-YP4700
MtDNA:
H14a
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:57 pm
Next way of calculating Adam's time

In most precisely tested haplogroup R1b we are finding
average about 164 SNPs per about 400000 base pair in WTY.

It is equaling 0.00041 SNPs per 1 b.p.

Dividing this result by 0.000000004 SNP per year (in NRY) ,
we receive the result 102,500 ybp, i.e.

103.000 ybp about.

Two-three ways gave the same result!
Stan
Last edited by Atim on Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:59 am

YDNA:
Adam-L74; R1a-YP4700
MtDNA:
H14a
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:44 pm
View Dienekes’s attempts to estimating the age of Y chromosome Adam:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/07/es ... -adam.html
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/07/es ... am_30.html
about 184.000 ybp or 159.000 ybp ?
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:15 pm
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:39 pm
See also from May 2012
Dienekes wrote:Terry, (tdrobbATgmail.com), a poster at GENEALOGY-DNA-L reported age estimates for various nodes of the Y-chromosome tree based on SNPs. These can be found in this PDF file and here (scroll down for UPDATE10). He used 1000 Genomes data and SNP counting to reach these estimates.


about 174.000 ybp or 141.000 ybp ?
DNA/Admixture Central Europe (Alps, Tyrol, Dolomites, Raetia); Y-DNA J2a-L1064, J2a-L210, R1a-M17, R1b-U106 (L48-); mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects : J2-M172, J2a-PF5197, Alpine DNA, ISOGG Wiki

Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:59 am

YDNA:
Adam-L74; R1a-YP4700
MtDNA:
H14a
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:35 am
Atim wrote:Next way of calculating Adam's time
In most precisely tested haplogroup R1b we are finding
average about 164 SNPs per about 400000 base pair in WTY.
It is equaling 0.00041 SNPs per 1 b.p.
Dividing this result by 0.000000004 SNP per year (in NRY) ,
we receive the result 102,500 ybp, i.e.
103.000 ybp about.
Two-three ways gave the same result!
Stan

After adding the following SNPs, Adam’s time increased to approximately 125,000 years.
See corrected tree A1 haplogroup:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47&start=20
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YDNA:
R1a-L260
MtDNA:
W3a1
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:27 pm
Atim wrote:After adding the following SNPs, Adam’s time increased to approximately 125,000 years.
See corrected tree A1 haplogroup:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47&start=20


How it is now ? :)

Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:46 pm
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:41 pm
Atim wrote:
Atim wrote:Next way of calculating Adam's time
In most precisely tested haplogroup R1b we are finding
average about 164 SNPs per about 400000 base pair in WTY.
It is equaling 0.00041 SNPs per 1 b.p.
Dividing this result by 0.000000004 SNP per year (in NRY) ,
we receive the result 102,500 ybp, i.e.
103.000 ybp about.
Two-three ways gave the same result!
Stan

After adding the following SNPs, Adam’s time increased to approximately 125,000 years.
See corrected tree A1 haplogroup:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47&start=20

A potential problem with Hammer's calculation is that it is not based on the average of multiple branches. Cruciani took great care to show the number of snps on different branches are similar to rule out any potential sampling bias. The 50 plus snps in the A00 branch is only a third of the 164 snps in the A1T-R2 branch. So both appear to be the outliers and will lead to biased age calculation.
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