Immigrant Ancestors

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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:42 pm
Location: Hong Kong
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:16 pm
One of the facets of being a genealogist from a country largely composed of immigrants is that one becomes very concerned with finding the bridge back to the place of origin. Sometimes the links feel solid, and sometimes they seem to raise questions. Here is a thread to discuss this sort of issue (given the North American category, open of course to all from Canada, the U.S., Mexico and MesoAmerica, and Caribbean States). Air your lineages, both solid and "of concern" here for some of your compatriots' consumption and reaction...
Y DNA lineage ancestor: Isaac Farris (b. 1787 in Virginia, USA)
mtDNA lineage ancestress: Ruth Stovall (b. 1731 in Virginia, USA)
Oldest known of any line: Ralfe Hurte (b. ca. 1410, Ashbourne, Derbyshire, England)

Known Surnames of 3rd gr.-grands:
Farris, Ramey, Montgomery, Summers, Tupman, Reynolds, Griffin, Atkinson, Powell, Witt, Dunaway, Woolery, White, Nickerson, Griest, Humbert, Mullin, Peacock, Heeter, Peters, Kern, Law, Meade, Conley, Estep, Lemaster, May, Caudill, Cooper, Salyer
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Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:42 pm
Location: Hong Kong
YDNA:
R1b, L21, DF21, L720
MtDNA:
J2b1a2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:25 pm
I am of such thoroughly "colonial" ancestry that those links back "across the water" seem very rare indeed. I can trace Y-DNA and mtDNA back into the 18th century, but not back to Europe. My apparent Scots and Irish ancestors, judging by surname, are among the most frustrating to try and trace. English ancestors are among the easiest. Given where I have lived and the records which I have been able to access myself, for most of the "immigrant" documentation I have to rely on others' work, so it comes down to judging quality of documentation and historical sense.

Here is my list of seemingly better-documented immigrants so far:

William Hurt, christened 24 July 1614 All Saints', Bristol, England d. 1701 in King and Queen Co., Virginia--looks moderately documented but he seems very long-lived for the 17th century--if it is solid, it will lead back to the 1400s in Derbyshire via members of the Fishmonger's and Grocers' guilds

Marcus Abraham Sallee, b. 1673 in St. Martin, Ile de Re, France, d. 1 March 1720 in Henrico Co., VA--solid

Abraham Soblet, b. 1648 in Sedan, France, d. ca 1719 in Henrico Co., VA--moderately solid

Ralph Jopling, b. 10 February 1674 in Wolsingham, Co. Durham, England, d. 1720 in Henrico Co., VA--partially documented through indentured servant document--solid

Abraham Estes (b. 1647 in Nonington, Kent, d. 21 November 1720 in King and Queen Co, Virginia), a linen weaver at Sandwich, Kent, and wife Ann--immigrants between 1672 and 1679--indentured servant document--solid.

John Ferguson b. 23 March 1650 in Gargunnock, Stirlingshire, d. 1717 Essex Co., VA, arrived in VA 1666--no idea about accuracy or on what this is based

Robert Chowning, b. ca 1630 in Wortham, Kent, England, d. ca 1700 in Middlesex Co., VA--I have no idea as to the accuracy, which is strange since he was a fairly "rich" colonist

William Daniel, b. 8 April 1625 in Over-Tabley, Cheshire, d. between 1695 and 1698 in Middlesex Co., VA--I just don't know--my one remaining documentary chance at being descended from a knight

and then the Quakers:
Thomas Baldwin 1 Nov 1657 Hook Norton Oxfordshire-1731 Chester Co., PA
Robert Pyle 29 Dec 1660 Bishops Canning, Wiltshire-1730 Bethel, PA
Ann Stovey 1660 Hilperton, Wiltshire-1724 Bethel, PA
Robert Chamberlain 15 Feb 1658 Marlborough, Wiltshire-1732 Chester Co., PA
Mary Sharples 1670-1751 Marlborough, Wilts to Chester Co., PA
Richard Haines 1647 Aynhoe Northamptonshire-at sea 1682--family arrives Burlington Co., NJ--very very solid
John Carlile London to Burlington Co., NJ d. 1692
William Matlack, June 1650 in Cropwell Bishop, Nottinghamshire to Burlington Co., NJ d. 1720
William Rakestraw, 1646 Oxfordshire-5 January 1718 Philadelphia
William Gregg 1 January 1642 in Antrim, d. 1 June 1687 New Castle, DE

and there are actually more but I've gotten tired....

Francis Law b. Belfast, Antrim d. Butler Co., Ohio 1818--this may actually be a rare post-Revolutionary immigrant--still working

Peter Hairston, Dumfriesshire, Scotland to Bedford Co., VA d. 1780--hazy, I'd say

Bartholomew Stovall 24 June 1665 in Aldbury, Surrey-May 1721 Henrico Co., VA-- to the colonies 1684, solid because of indentured servant documents

There are also the suppositions/oral histories:
Ulster for the Thompsons, France for the Rameys/Remys, Scotland for the Montgomerys, Waymires are German, Powells Welsh (or are they English and if so for how long?), Hendricks are German, Nickersons are English, Garretsons Dutch (or are they Swedish?), Heeters German, Dilts German, Conleys from Armagh, van Harlingens Dutch (well, yes, just like my MacAlpines and MacGregors are quite likely Scottish), Caudills Scots, etc....

This is perhaps a self-indulgent exercise, but I might recommend it. The above are a tiny fraction of what my ancestry would be circa 1650-1750 when it seems most of my ancestors would arrive, and yet I'm not ultimately comfortable with the documentation of the linkages. Ironically some of the best documented are not the land-owners but those that arrived temporarily as someone else's temporary possessions (i.e. indentured). The thing is that none of the four surnames of my grandparents still can be traced definitively back across the waters.

Perhaps this is something that autosomal testing somehow resolves, but even then questions emerge. Does this sort of genetic testing really illustrate historical ancestry? I know I have a strong manifestation of the Daniel genes mentioned above from my father's side and slightly obscure Estep and Caudill genes and believe it or not despite generational distance to the Stovalls from my mother's side, but so many links have yet to appear--the well documented Quaker lineages have barely appeared at all believe it or not...

Well, enough of this... It's the weekend before the 4th of July and I'm living off on the other side of the world--with no nearby genetic connections--and just pondering.... If anyone else wants to raise questions, or just vent about the topic of immigrant ancestors, please do...
Y DNA lineage ancestor: Isaac Farris (b. 1787 in Virginia, USA)
mtDNA lineage ancestress: Ruth Stovall (b. 1731 in Virginia, USA)
Oldest known of any line: Ralfe Hurte (b. ca. 1410, Ashbourne, Derbyshire, England)

Known Surnames of 3rd gr.-grands:
Farris, Ramey, Montgomery, Summers, Tupman, Reynolds, Griffin, Atkinson, Powell, Witt, Dunaway, Woolery, White, Nickerson, Griest, Humbert, Mullin, Peacock, Heeter, Peters, Kern, Law, Meade, Conley, Estep, Lemaster, May, Caudill, Cooper, Salyer

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:11 pm
My earliest "known" female (Charity Biles(?)) looks to be of an English line, plain and simple. In that case, her line came down from NJin the mid 1700s to Anson County area, North Carolina.

later: I connected my maternal line to Keziah Hunt, born about 1720 in Maidenhead, New Jersey. From there it is an easy trail back to England. There is a fuzzy kink with Elizabeth Fisher's parents. She was supposedly born 1495. If her father really was Michael Fisher, and mother Margaret Frowick, then my maternal line probably goes back to Isabel Cornwall. If that turns out to be true, then my maternal line continues straight back to Joan Plantagenet 1189-1237, wife of Llewelyn Iowerth of Wales.

later still: It now looks like that Quaker connection with Keziah Hunt and husband Stephen Biles was in error, although maybe possible. Stephen Biles was apparently a Prebyterian. So he probably arrived from NY with the rest of that Hunterdon, NJ bunch; or possibly from Scotch settlers in the Monmouth area. Anyway, I'm more interested in my direct maternal line there, so the male connections are secondary.
Last edited by PDHOTLEN on Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:43 am, edited 6 times in total.
Mitosearch: G986T
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:42 pm
This is a topic I can certain relate to. On my father's side, I haven't found any ancestry not already in America by the end of the colonial period. In some instances, I have traced to 5th great grandparents and earlier, only to find that they were born in America, but I wasn't able to go back any further. One of the ancestors I do have immigration details for is also my earliest know Y-line ancestor. His name was Johan Buchhammer, and he arrived at the Port of Philadelphia on 15 September 1749. Beyond that, the records only report that the passengers of the ship he arrived on were identified as "from the Palatinate". I have no details as to the town he came from, or really which of the several German "states". "The Palatinate" was somewhat loosely defined in the 18th century, as least by the British.

I have a few ancestors who were living in North America by not much past the mid-17th century. These include some of my French Canadians who eventually ended up on the gulf coast (in Louisiana and Mississippi). One was Jean Baptiste Baudreau, born in Montreal in 1671. His father, Urbain Baudreau, appears to have been born in France in 1633; but he was in Quebec by 1664, because he was married that year, in Montreal. Jean Baptiste settled in southern Mississippi around 1700.

I also have three "recent" immigrant ancestors. By "recent" I mean that they didn't arrive in America until about 1830 or so. This includes two 2nd great grandfathers born on the island of Menorca. They traveled separately, and I'm not aware they even knew one another. But one had a son and the other had a daughter, and these two married and became my great grandparents. The third immigrant among my 2nd great grandparents was from Alsace-Lorraine. She arrived in New Orleans with her family as a young child, and later married one of the Spanish 2nd great grandfathers. The other Spanish 2nd great grandfather married a woman whose family had been in America since at least the early 1700s, and was a blend of French, Irish, Swiss, and Native American.

So my maternal ancestry includes both the earliest and latest arrivals. Among the former are some who arguably shouldn't count as immigrants, but perhaps "first settlers". (Some Indians like to say that their people were "always here".) In any case, they certainly had at least a several-thousand-years' head start on the others. At nearly as I can determine, these ancestors were most likely Choctaw. But that's mostly based on time and place considerations. The only records I've seen actual copies of simply refer to my ancestor as "une indienne". For example, there is a marriage record identifying the bride as the "natural daughter" (a polite way of saying "bastard", I believe) of Jean Baptist Baudreau and "an Indian". I have seen some references to her name as "Emashapa"; others speak of "Suzanne". Certainly, Suzanne seems to have been the name of Jean Baptiste Baudreau II's Indian mother, but it isn't clear whether he and his sister Madeleine had the same mother. There's evidence that Jean Baptiste Baudreau I was involved with more than one Indian woman. He was also "involved" with at least one woman of French ancestry. (But not with all these women at the same time, as far as I know.)

In most biogeographical analyses -- including one by Dr. McDonald -- and in 23andMe's Ancestry Composition, I show around 2% "Native American" DNA. My brother and sister have comparable amounts. That actually seems rather a lot for the generational distance, but there is some reason to believe there may also be some additional NA ancestors. In addition to that, thanks to a couple of consanguineous marriages, I'm descended from Madeleine by more than one path.

(One reason I like to "make a fuss" about my Native American ancestry, I suppose, is that unlike my wife and many others I know, I don't seem to have any lines back to the Mayflower. I do have a few folks who were in New Netherlands by about 1640 or so. But, no Pilgrims, just a few Indians. None that would have met the Pilgrims, of course -- just one who met a Frenchman.)

[Lastly, I should also thank JAFarris for the idea of including 3rd great grandparent surnames and Y-line and mtDNA earliest ancestors in my signature. I'm shamelessly "borrowing" it. Unfortunately, the 500-character limit forced me to choose between those things and my "ethnic breakdown".]
Y-DNA ancestor: Johan Buchhammer, b. Germany 1729; to America 1749
mtDNA ancestor: Marie Anne Berda dit Picard, b. MS gulf coast, 1727

3 ggp surnames: Buchhammer (Bookhammer), Gregg, White, Smith, Mogle, Carle, Keith, Walker, Fry, Schoenfelt, Clapper, Hetrick, Yingling, -, Clapper, Foutz, Weaver (orig. Weber), Delong, Blickenstaff, Hauver, Koch, -, Roll, Weaver (Weber), Pons, -, Reeb, Peter, Canet, Manent, Ryan, Ladner

Avatar: Self, father, grandfather, g-grandfather

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