Of Gods and government: atheists are the least trusted?

You can discuss some non-genetic or non-genealogical things here. Pull up a chair and have a beer! But if you bring up politics or religion, the barman will cut you off. The forum rules do apply here especially regarding civility.

Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:57 pm

MtDNA:
J1c3i
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:28 pm
As I was raised in a more, or less, atheist home and have always been an atheist, this surprised me:

"What’s the group that least agrees with Americans’ vision of their country? It’s not Muslims, gays, feminists, or recent immigrants. It’s atheists, according to many sociological surveys. In one survey conducted in 2006 by sociologist Penny Edgell and her colleagues, nearly half of respondents said they would disapprove if their child wanted to marry an atheist, and a majority would not vote for an atheist president of their preferred political party, the lowest social acceptance rates of any group that Americans are asked about."

However, when "believer's" are reminded that secular authority also works (i.e. police enforcement), they become less adverse to atheists. I knew that those with strong religious convictions would disapprove of my lack of religious belief, but I had no idea how poorly atheists are regarded:

“Sincere commitment to belief in God may be viewed as a signal for trustworthiness, particularly by religious believers who think that people behave better if they are under supernatural surveillance,” says Norenzayan. “Atheists consider their disbelief as a matter of private conscience, while believers think atheists’ absence of belief is a public threat to cooperation and honesty. However, this negative perception of atheists declines to the extent that people are reminded of secular means of social surveillance.”

It's ironic in a way, because I view religious people with as much skepticism as they apparently view me. I see religion as promoting a "do-over" button, in which believers can "sin" and be absolved through some kind of religious forgiveness. As for myself, I just hold myself accountable at all times, not having a magic "do-over" button to fall back on.

What do you think?

Reminders of Secular Authority Reduce Believers’ Distrust of Atheists
http://www.psychologicalscience.org/ind ... eists.html
mtDNA: J1c3i
Husband/son: B1778 R-L226 Frawley from Rathkeale, Limerick, Ireland
Grandpa: 259187 R-L21 DF13+ Griffith from Cardigan, Wales
M102536
23andme V3 upgrade, I'm on openSNP

Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:14 am

YDNA:
R1b-Z12*
MtDNA:
I3b (FMS)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:32 pm
Little bit wrote:What do you think?


Seeing as you asked, I think that discussion of religion and politics ought to banned on this site and relegated to sites designed for such debates.
Use Profile/Edit Profile in User Control Panel to add your Y-DNA and mtDNA values.

Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:57 pm

MtDNA:
J1c3i
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:33 pm
Sorry, I was genuinely curious what other's thought as I found it reported at ScienceDaily and don't normally haunt websites devoted to this subject. If other's agree with GTC, I will gladly withdraw and delete the thread.
mtDNA: J1c3i
Husband/son: B1778 R-L226 Frawley from Rathkeale, Limerick, Ireland
Grandpa: 259187 R-L21 DF13+ Griffith from Cardigan, Wales
M102536
23andme V3 upgrade, I'm on openSNP
User avatar
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:49 pm
Location: Cologne, Germany
YDNA:
I2a2a1c2a3
MtDNA:
K1b2a3
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:43 pm
In this case I do not agree with GTC, as long as no one is addressed privately or in an aggressive manner.
On the occasion of an exhibition opening of my paintings some years ago Prof. Richter of the Cologne prehistory institute cited a similar study showing, that almost 60% of Americans denied the vision of evolution, mainly due to religious beliefs.
Science cannot be regarded without the various layers of perception of itself - and since all our interest is based on a clear hypothesis of evolution, we should always have a look on all the different "Nonbelievers".
Y (FXHD8) mt (D9M4P), MurtiX, DE1(DE22), DOD219, M111723 (M001628)
User avatar
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:14 pm
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Northern Ontario, Canada
YDNA:
L21-L513*
MtDNA:
H1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:52 pm
the problem is, more often than not, these discussions might start off quite reasonably, but it just takes one poster to take it too far, and then we are into a nasty bruehaha....
and there usually is someone with an axe to grind thats just hanging around, looking to pounce

a pity, but thats my experiance

my 2 cents

Mike
Furthest Y line=Patrick Whealen 1816-1874, Tipperary Co. Ire. to Kincardine On

Y-DNA-RL21, R-513* (still looking for the 'lost Irish 'C' boys')

FTDNA=P312+ P25+ M343+ M269+ M207+ M173+ L513+ U198- U152- U106- SRY2627- P66- P107- M73- M65- M37- M222- M18- M160- M153- M126- L705- L577- L193- L159.2- L1333-
23&me=L21+
E.A.= S21-, S26-, S28-, S29-, S68-

Co Administrator of the Whalen/Phelan DNA Surname Project
http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/whalen
User avatar
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:49 pm
Location: Cologne, Germany
YDNA:
I2a2a1c2a3
MtDNA:
K1b2a3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:13 am
perhaps it is my european point of view, but I cannot see any value in banning or prohibiting topics. There are always easy tactics in handling annoying posters and the change in politics at 23andme some months ago and the complete breakdown of dna-forums only was disappointing and caused a feeling of real desillusion. The huge decrease of communication traffic on our possible forums clearly shows this.
My personal experience with an offtopic escalation is really neglectible and gives no reason for intervention. After each "banning" discussion I saw a big bunch of valuable members leave. That is not worth it!
Y (FXHD8) mt (D9M4P), MurtiX, DE1(DE22), DOD219, M111723 (M001628)
User avatar
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:14 pm
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Northern Ontario, Canada
YDNA:
L21-L513*
MtDNA:
H1
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:24 am
I believe more left due to the unpleasant arguments that kept occuring...at least thats what I have been personally told by several that used to be well known posters and are silent now

M
Furthest Y line=Patrick Whealen 1816-1874, Tipperary Co. Ire. to Kincardine On

Y-DNA-RL21, R-513* (still looking for the 'lost Irish 'C' boys')

FTDNA=P312+ P25+ M343+ M269+ M207+ M173+ L513+ U198- U152- U106- SRY2627- P66- P107- M73- M65- M37- M222- M18- M160- M153- M126- L705- L577- L193- L159.2- L1333-
23&me=L21+
E.A.= S21-, S26-, S28-, S29-, S68-

Co Administrator of the Whalen/Phelan DNA Surname Project
http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/whalen

Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:57 pm

MtDNA:
J1c3i
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:21 pm
I have to say, I struggled all night with this...delete it or keep it. I think it's a valid discussion, but these topics do tend to devolve into mud-slinging and hurt feelings. I've been watching quite a few 23andme and FTDNA threads devolve into name-calling and threats over silly things, but I've also seen individuals debate with tact and great insight.

I guess what made me post this is the surprise of how poorly atheists are regarded. It's actually Medical Express, not ScienceDaily, that I found the report and I was stunned while I read it. The article says atheists have the:
"lowest social acceptance rates of any group that Americans are asked about"
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-04-s ... eists.html

I just don't feel that unaccepted...yes, I recognize that my belief system is not the "norm" but are my neighbors with kids secretly hoping their kids don't marry my kids? I feel like questions about religion has been playing too big of a role in American politics, and I think an atheist president is probably not on the horizon but they said that about a Catholic president (Kennedy) and it looks like a Mormon is in strong contention right now. From what I can tell, a good percentage of Americans aren't going to church regularly or observing tenets of religion...so maybe the difference is just one of semantics?

In looking for this article at ScienceDaily, I found another interesting article on the subject:
More Than 20 Percent of Atheist Scientists Are 'Spiritual', Study Finds
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 124039.htm

I honestly think there's much more middle ground here: many atheists are spiritual, and many "believer's" are really just spiritually connected to religion - not actively participating. I think the divide, if there is one, is being fostered by a rabid "if it bleeds it leads" media and some extremes on either side. And of course, fear. People fear what they don't understand, and seem to need a boogeyman to rally against. In a land where almost everyone is from somewhere else, lack of religious belief may be the boogeyman everyone can agree on --- kind of ironic, when you think about how the country was founded.
mtDNA: J1c3i
Husband/son: B1778 R-L226 Frawley from Rathkeale, Limerick, Ireland
Grandpa: 259187 R-L21 DF13+ Griffith from Cardigan, Wales
M102536
23andme V3 upgrade, I'm on openSNP
User avatar
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:23 pm
Location: Western Colorado
YDNA:
J-L147.1 J1c3d L1253
MtDNA:
H
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:51 pm
Hi folks....I see nothing wrong with this discussion. I personally concider myself a spiritual person based on some experiences I have had in my life; I am 72. I am not a believer in any religion. If you can call the old beliefs in mans relationship with a Supreme Power a religion then it is a totally private and unorganized one. However my beliefs are strong. I live in a small town and most everyone knows each other business. I have not tried to hide my beliefs and have felt quite a lot of adverse feelings toward me because I am not a part of most peoples cookie cutter religions. I am different and different is dangerous in some minds. We have several folks that claim to be atheists and even I feel strange when talking to them about their lack of belief in anything spirtual. I want to explain my beliefs and why and how I came to them. However I do not. I believe all people in this country have the right to believe as they will. However I can see how a person with a very dogmatic belief would feel uneasy around a strong atheist belief. I saw those findings several days ago and was not surprised however it does make me a little nervous for where we are headed in this country.
Y J1c3d P58+ L147.1+ L222- 174- Z644- Z640- Z644- +L1252 +L1253 L1279- Z1884+ CTS5857-
FTDNA N42042
Oldest Y ancestor:
Archebald Graham, father of David b. Dec. 23, 1647 in Edinburgh, Scotland
Oldest Mt: My mother's grandmother on her Mother's side: Sonicooie b +- 1743 CNE [Cherokee Nation East]was father to Soniovie [Susannah] Sonicooie
My mother's grandmother on her father's side was 1/2 Creek Indian from Alabama
User avatar
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:23 pm
Location: Western Colorado
YDNA:
J-L147.1 J1c3d L1253
MtDNA:
H
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:42 pm
Little bit....It is hard for us to grasp but we humans are very much the same creature that was around 2000-3000 years ago. We have advanced technologically but emotionally we have not advanced much if any from those people. We are still a trible, clannish group. The older humans feared any one that did not look or talk like they did or dress like they did; a different plaid would get you killed. The fear was so great that clan wars were almost continual. Todays humans are not much different and still fear anyone not like themselves in looks and beliefs. In certain parts of this world we now live in you can get killed for not having the same belief that is standard in that part of the world. This is going on today! So you should not be surprised by that study here in the good old USA.
Y J1c3d P58+ L147.1+ L222- 174- Z644- Z640- Z644- +L1252 +L1253 L1279- Z1884+ CTS5857-
FTDNA N42042
Oldest Y ancestor:
Archebald Graham, father of David b. Dec. 23, 1647 in Edinburgh, Scotland
Oldest Mt: My mother's grandmother on her Mother's side: Sonicooie b +- 1743 CNE [Cherokee Nation East]was father to Soniovie [Susannah] Sonicooie
My mother's grandmother on her father's side was 1/2 Creek Indian from Alabama
Next

Return to The Corner Pub

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron