J1 haplotree

Possible time of origin: 4,000-34,000 years before present
Possible place of origin: Western Asia
Defining mutations: M267
Highest frequencies: Semitic populations generally, and also parts of the Caucasus (including Dagestan).

Moderator: napobo3

User avatar
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:39 pm
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:06 pm
Rob1 wrote:I would name Z644 as "J1c3d1" rather than "J1c3d3". SNP L174.1 should clearly appear private by now. L222.2 would then remain J1c3d2. Also Z644 appears to be older than L222.2, so conventionally should come first.

How it can be called private ?
http://ymap.ftdna.com/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrow ... ?name=L174 says :
L174.1
count_derived: 4
User avatar
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:20 pm

YDNA:
J-L816
MtDNA:
K1a4a
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:37 pm
napobo3 wrote:How it can be called private ?


That is a very relevant question: what should we do with SNPs, which have the number of confirmed cases at FTDNA exceeding 1, but for which we don't have a single haplotype available at public projects? How can we check if these 4 cases are unrelated (as required by ISOGG listing criteria)?

L174 is not a unique example of such situation: the same is true for J1c3a-M368.1, which has 5 confirmed FTDNA cases (4 shown under M368, 1 under M368.1) but not a single haplotype added to public projects. On YSearch, we only have 1 case shown as J1c3d1 (KC3AB), tested by Genebase.com, and no cases shown as J1c3a.

My view is that in cases where haplotypes are not available to do unrelatedness test, the respective SNPs should be moved from ISOGG tree to "Under investigation" category, as at least FTDNA data don't provide unambigous basis to recognize them as either private or non-private.

Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:44 pm

YDNA:
J1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:17 am
Rob1 wrote:I would name Z644 as "J1c3d1" rather than "J1c3d3". SNP L174.1 should clearly appear private by now. L222.2 would then remain J1c3d2. Also Z644 appears to be older than L222.2, so conventionally should come first.

Hi Raciti,
Could you please provide us in brief your family history ?
User avatar
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:29 am
Location: Sicily
YDNA:
J1-YSC76
MtDNA:
Not Tested
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:37 pm
Bennu7 wrote:
Rob1 wrote:I would name Z644 as "J1c3d1" rather than "J1c3d3". SNP L174.1 should clearly appear private by now. L222.2 would then remain J1c3d2. Also Z644 appears to be older than L222.2, so conventionally should come first.

Hi Raciti,
Could you please provide us in brief your family history ?


Visit my website by clicking on the link provided at the bottom of my signature, it should give you a good overview
yDNA: J1-YSC76 (L147.1+ L858+ YSC76+ L222.2- Z644-); Giovanni Raciti, b. 1490, Aci Sant'Antonio, Sicily. Guglielmo Raciti b. 1180, Longi, Sicily.

Raciti Surname Project - Help us to discover more about the origins of this surname and cluster by donating a sum to the project here General Fund

Raciti Family - an Internet Site dedicated to the History and Origins of the Raciti Surname

Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:44 pm

YDNA:
J1
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:20 am
Rob1 wrote:
Bennu7 wrote:
Rob1 wrote:I would name Z644 as "J1c3d1" rather than "J1c3d3". SNP L174.1 should clearly appear private by now. L222.2 would then remain J1c3d2. Also Z644 appears to be older than L222.2, so conventionally should come first.

Hi Raciti,
Could you please provide us in brief your family history ?


Visit my website by clicking on the link provided at the bottom of my signature, it should give you a good overview

Thank you Rob 1, actually I entered your site first time but unfortunately I did not notice there was in English also , my fault !
I found your family history is a very interesting and rich in history events, so where did you reach by now after DNA test ?
User avatar
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:29 am
Location: Sicily
YDNA:
J1-YSC76
MtDNA:
Not Tested
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:42 pm
Bennu7 wrote:Thank you Rob 1, actually I entered your site first time but unfortunately I did not notice there was in English also , my fault !
I found your family history is a very interesting and rich in history events, so where did you reach by now after DNA test ?


I now have four men from three different clusters, all of which separated before 1520's, and who share the same haplogroup and very close haplotypes. The most distant of which have a genetic distance of 13 (out of 67 markers) and still the same surname! I have the potential of reconstructing the haplotypes of the three men who generated these three main clusters, all of whom were born around 1490's, 1520's and 1550's. Four more volunteers have joined and expect results, but we need slightly more men and especially money to keep the project alive!

The advantage of our surname project is that I do not need twenty or thirty people, a dozen will suffice because I can select the best candidates and then ask them to join if they wish.

Ancestry seems middle-eastern, semitic surely; however I can't tell yet if there is an arabic or jewish origin, both however were present in Sicily before 1100's.
yDNA: J1-YSC76 (L147.1+ L858+ YSC76+ L222.2- Z644-); Giovanni Raciti, b. 1490, Aci Sant'Antonio, Sicily. Guglielmo Raciti b. 1180, Longi, Sicily.

Raciti Surname Project - Help us to discover more about the origins of this surname and cluster by donating a sum to the project here General Fund

Raciti Family - an Internet Site dedicated to the History and Origins of the Raciti Surname

Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:44 pm

YDNA:
J1
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:58 pm
Rob1 wrote:
Bennu7 wrote:Thank you Rob 1, actually I entered your site first time but unfortunately I did not notice there was in English also , my fault !
I found your family history is a very interesting and rich in history events, so where did you reach by now after DNA test ?


I now have four men from three different clusters, all of which separated before 1520's, and who share the same haplogroup and very close haplotypes. The most distant of which have a genetic distance of 13 (out of 67 markers) and still the same surname! I have the potential of reconstructing the haplotypes of the three men who generated these three main clusters, all of whom were born around 1490's, 1520's and 1550's. Four more volunteers have joined and expect results, but we need slightly more men and especially money to keep the project alive!

The advantage of our surname project is that I do not need twenty or thirty people, a dozen will suffice because I can select the best candidates and then ask them to join if they wish.

Ancestry seems middle-eastern, semitic surely; however I can't tell yet if there is an arabic or jewish origin, both however were present in Sicily before 1100's.

Good luck and all the best, Grazzia
User avatar
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:20 pm

YDNA:
J-L816
MtDNA:
K1a4a
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:32 pm
napobo3 wrote:
Rob1 wrote:I would name Z644 as "J1c3d1" rather than "J1c3d3". SNP L174.1 should clearly appear private by now. L222.2 would then remain J1c3d2. Also Z644 appears to be older than L222.2, so conventionally should come first.

How it can be called private ?
http://ymap.ftdna.com/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrow ... ?name=L174 says :
L174.1
count_derived: 4


In August 06 version of ISOGG tree, L174.1 has been removed from the tree, and L222.2 is now called J1c3d1.

A funny misprint in Corrections/Additions section: it says "Moved L147.1 [...] from tree to private SNPs" ;)

I wonder if any new SNPs discussed above in this thread will be added to the tree in the near future....
User avatar
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:20 pm

YDNA:
J-L816
MtDNA:
K1a4a
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:22 pm
And yet another, even more radical review of J1 ISOGG tree:

M62, M367.1, M368.1, M369 and M390 were moved to private SNPs, along with a number of SNPs under J2.

RCO's M365.1 clade is now named J1a, and the P58 branch becomes J1b2.
User avatar
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:29 am
Location: Sicily
YDNA:
J1-YSC76
MtDNA:
Not Tested
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:21 pm
Iyyovi wrote:And yet another, even more radical review of J1 ISOGG tree:

M62, M367.1, M368.1, M369 and M390 were moved to private SNPs, along with a number of SNPs under J2.

RCO's M365.1 clade is now named J1a, and the P58 branch becomes J1b2.


I guess it's time to get used to the new names, and will probably change again in the future!!!
yDNA: J1-YSC76 (L147.1+ L858+ YSC76+ L222.2- Z644-); Giovanni Raciti, b. 1490, Aci Sant'Antonio, Sicily. Guglielmo Raciti b. 1180, Longi, Sicily.

Raciti Surname Project - Help us to discover more about the origins of this surname and cluster by donating a sum to the project here General Fund

Raciti Family - an Internet Site dedicated to the History and Origins of the Raciti Surname
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