E' gentile Gentili?

Possible time of origin: 18,500 +/- 3,500 years ago.
Possible place of origin: Mesopotamia
Defining mutations: M172

Moderator: Maximus

Posts: 2309
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:00 pm
Another stupid pretension of someone who thinks to be a Jew. I said to you that it is possible that someone belonged to Jewish religion in Medieval or more recent times, but we have to see if they were of old Jewish origin or introgressed in Europe. Gentili thinks to be of Jewish origin and at last he accepted to be tested. www.yseq.net gave his Y35 (CDYI and II lacks so far) and he belongs to J2a-L70. I think that he belongs to J-PF5456 and negative for Y24651, thus, as the pack of Yseq cannot say more than this, I suggest to test just Y24651, which I presuppose to be negative, thus he should be demonstrated to belong to J-PF5456. In this case the unique uncertainty could be L396.
The Jewish cluster (with the same Behar) is at the J-Z3949 level, just for having DYS448=19<20 (Gentili has the upstream 21), already at the level of J-FGC21085, but to think that this subclade was Jewish very likely is unlikely, because we have YF02211 from Austria, and all the upstream subclades are European ones. Thus we have here another Jewish hg J2 but very likely introgressed in Europe and not Old Jewish.

 J-PF5456 PF5456 formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 3000 ybp
 id:YF06928NLD
 J-PF5456*
 id:NA20778ITA
 J-L396L396
 J-Y24651 Y24651/FGC54172 formed 3000 ybp, TMRCA 3000 ybp
 J-Y24651*
 id:ERS256869ITA [IT-CA]
 J-FGC21085 FGC21093 * FGC21086 * FGC21083+6 SNPs formed 3000 ybp, TMRCA 1400 ybp
 J-FGC21085*
 id:YF02211AUT [AT-9]
 J-Z39494 Z39494 formed 1400 ybp, TMRCA 1300 ybp
 id:YF06750LTU
 id:YF06017BLR [BY-VI]
 J-Z40772 Z40772 formed 3000 ybp, TMRCA 3000 ybp
 id:YF11841new
 id:YF11708new
 id:YF11621USA [US-NC]new
 id:YF11104SWE [SE-T]
 id:YF10652SCT
 id:NA20809ITA

Posts: 2309
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:43 am
Of course L396 is misclassified from YFull because they have no sample of it, but it clearly is downstream BY268, thus this Jewish cluster is not older that 1400 years as to YFull and Gentili doesn't belong to it, thus the proposed tests are definitive.

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