datation of C haplogroup and C sub-branches


Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:26 pm
Location: Paris region
YDNA:
G2a2b2a1b1a2a-CT4803
MtDNA:
H2a2a1 (rCRS)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:47 pm
Already, fro the haplogroup I took the experimental tree of the haplogroup G maintained by Ray Banks according to recent studies mainly interpreted by Greg Magooon. With an hypothesis which is to taking 1 mutation every 115 years plus an estimation of 35 unknown mutations at the end of the tree (4025 years) I obtained a date for the separation of haplogroup G :

G-M201_____743 mutations from now__________85445 BP Separation of the branch G from macrohaplogroup F at the beginning of the warmer phase MIS 5a ("Odderade" 86,000-74,000 BP when the branches I, J, K, LT and MNOPS diverged from FxG ) and phase MIS 4 the first Pleniglacial (74,000-59,000BP). The date corresponds to the birth of the Mt macrohaplogroups M and N.

These datations could correspond to an 'Out of Africa' during the very warm and very wet Eemian (phase MIS 5e 130,000-120,000 BP) and an 'Out of Arabia' towards South and South-East Asia at the beginning of the warm and wet Odderade about 87,000 BP.

I took the equivalent experimental tree of the haplogroup C maintained by Ray Banks, with the same hypotheses, I did a first calculation for the Japonese C1.
https://sites.google.com/site/haplogrou ... tal-c-tree

C1a1a1-CTS6678_______21+35____________56_____________ 6,555BP
C1a1a2-Z1356_________22+35____________57_____________ 6,440BP
C1a1a-P121___________546______________603_____________69,443BP
C1a1-M8_______________43______________646_____________74,290BP date of the separation with the European C1a2-V20 (old C6) ? if exact, it is at the beginning of the first pleniglacial.
C1a-CTS11043___________1______________647_____________74,405BP date of the separation with the South Asian/Indian C1b-M356 (old C5). At the beginning of the first pleniglacial.
C1-F3393_______________12_____________659_____________75,785BP date of the separation with East Asiatic C3-M217 (unchanged). The positions of separation of the Oceanian C2-M38, the Australian C4 are incertain, can be downstairs of F3393..
C-M216________________291_____________950____________109,260BP date of the separation of the branch C with the branch F from the macrohaplogroup CF.

From Poznik tree, I had calculated that the Separation of DE and CF was about 115,000 years ago (near the birth of Mts L3 and L4) and the separation of B and CT was about 155,000years (near the birth of Mts L2 and L3'4'6).

ASAP, I will calculate for the other branches of C.
Last edited by palamede on Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:26 pm
Location: Paris region
YDNA:
G2a2b2a1b1a2a-CT4803
MtDNA:
H2a2a1 (rCRS)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:42 pm
I repeat the same calculation for the "Mongol" C3


C3e-K516______________74+35___________111_____________12,765BP
C3e-F845_______________42______________153_____________17,595BP
C3e-Z1338/F2613_______377______________530_____________60,950BP just before the end of the first pleniglacial
C3-F1067______________126______________656_____________75,440BP It is at the beginning of the first pleniglacial.
C3_M217_______________60______________716_____________82,340BP During the warm Odderade oscillation. date of the separation with Japonese,European C1a (old C1, C6) and Indian C1b (old C5) and with Oceanian C2-M38, Australian C4
C-M216________________291____________1007____________115,805BP date of the separation of the branch C with the branch F from the macrohaplogroup CF.

The date of the separation of the branch C with the branch F differs from (115,805-109,260)=6,545 years. This could be due to different reasons :
1) The aleatory occurence of the mutations.
2) A different coverage in the Y-chromosome exploration.
3) I put the 35 arbitrary unknown mutations (4025 years) for the end of the tree in the 2 cases while the coverage of recent mutations could be better in the C3 case than in the C1 case.

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