N1c1-L1022 NorthEuropean [L708+,L1026+,L1022+]

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YDNA:
N-L1022
MtDNA:
U5a1a1d
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:55 am
MACK wrote:
James B Crowther wrote:
Juhani Wayrynen wrote:
Stenhög your opinion was rightful.
Now there are many BigY tested. It looks that L1022 clades new SNPs downstream of Y5004 are born in Finland, perhaps Y7300 not.
Where L1022 and Y5004 are born?
And where VL29 and cts9976 are born?
The Kaali explosion was probably reason to emigrate from Estonia to Finland.
We look forward.
James what you do think about your homeland now?


Juhani,
A very merry Christmas to you. :D I think southwest Finland is winning the likely origin location now for Y5003 as well as for most of the subclades below L1022. If the Kaali explosion was as recent as 4000 years ago as some have estimated it would have occurred about the same time that YFull has estimated the formation of VL29. The extensive destruction and likely panic caused by the meteorite would justify migration of a population away from Saaremaa Island impact area. A migration into southwest Finland is a logical route to get to good hunting grounds not effected by the explosion. Although the impact has been estimated to have occurred as far back as 7000 years I find it very interesting that the formation VL29 and the Kaali explosion could have occurred at the same time in the more recent timeframe. It would be amazing if the explosion and the SNP mutation were connected! Truly a "children of Kaali" situation. :o


Hello and a successful and prosperous continuation of 2016! :)

Wikipedia mention about contacts between balticum and southwest finland about this time. I wonder if this can be connected to the VL29 immigration to the area.

From 3200 BCE onwards, either immigrants or a strong cultural influence from south of the Gulf of Finland settled in southwestern Finland. This culture was a part of the European Battle Axe cultures, which have often been associated with the movement of the Indo-European speakers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Finland


Hi MACK,

A happy New Year to you as well.

At FTDNA's International Symposium in November, Dr. Michael Hammer made an excellent presentation that included discussion of recent ancient Y-DNA proof that connected R1a to the Battle Axe culture. Since the location of the origin location of the Battle Axe culture's R1a is in the same general location of the Russian steppes as N1c I had to ask the question of whether there was a possible connection between the migration of both haplogroups into northern Europe. He stated he believed there was a connection. There is already research that proves that the Y-DNA of western Finland is distinct from eastern Finland. Also, I believe that there is consensus that the Y-DNA of southwestern Finland migrated from south of the Gulf of Finland. So it is possible that there is a connection between VL29 and the Battle Axe culture migration into southwestern Finland.

Best regards, James
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:22 am
I am not sure these have already been identified, however, I wanted to share the findings of my data mining check of the FTDNA surname and geographic projects. The following kits are possible matches to known N-Y5003* subclade kits based on their SNP/STR matches:
- Matches to Nikkinen (324135) N-5003/Y16506 and/or Eela (272728) N-5003/Y18914 are Myllymäk (N52054) and Andersson (N37489)
- Matches to Hahl (284240) N-Y5003/Z35267 is Rydman (N56867)
- Matches to Paltta (273538) N-Y5003* (or Crowther (73958) N-Y5003*) are Jorhansson (N10231), Olofsson (318501) and Linbroos (393169)
- Matches to Pelkonen (278185) N-Y5003/Y15059 is Arvela (366131)

Two potentially new Y5003* subclades may be Laine (410798) matches to Saastamoined (331376) and Okkonen (409654) matches to Kaaby (332642).
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:52 pm
Juhani Wayrynen wrote:
Juhani Wayrynen wrote:
Stenhög wrote:

At the same time there are three lines of Y5005+ represented in SW Finland Y5003+, Y10756+ and the Mäntzä clan, which indicates a higher Y5005 diversification there and thus presumably the place of origin for Y5005. The situation can have other explanations too, like the rougher history of Estonia with some devastating wars leading to population bottlenecks. There is also a testing bias for Finland.

Here is an updated version of everyone confirmed Y5003+

Y5003ver1.png


I don't understand that the place of origin for Y5005 is in SW Finland. Is Y5005 born in SW Finland and then some moved back to Estonia? The subgroups Y6599, PF3452 and Y10756 are probably born in SW Finland.


I keep revisiting the places where those who have tested Y5005+ and Y5003+ identified their ancestry and comparing the places with the historical and the archeology records. With the limited number who have tested Y5005 and Y5003 at this point it is easy to argue that either SW Finland or Estonia could be their place of origin. However, now that Y5003 is showing up along the Volga trade route I get the feeling that these SNPs as well as most who are in L1022 subclade were part of a very restless group of peoples where the SNPs could have originated in northwestern Russia or any of the Baltic Sea areas. L1022 is showing up in similar places but in much lower numbers as N-L550/L551 in England and along the Volga trade route. Now that YFull estimates the creation time of Y5005 and Y5003 are within 2100 years of their current descendants, rather than trace the SNP by itself, would it be worthwhile to identify if there are cousin SNPs in Hg R1b and/or Hg I1a that exclusively locate with Y5005 and Y5003 that could help be a way to answer Juhani's question?


Stenhög your opinion was rightful.
Now there are many BigY tested. It looks that L1022 clades new SNPs downstream of Y5004 are born in Finland, perhaps Y7300 not.
Where L1022 and Y5004 are born?
And where VL29 and cts9976 are born?
The Kaali explosion was probably reason to emigrate from Estonia to Finland.
We look forward.
James what you do think about your homeland now?[/quote]

Now it seems that L1022 is born in Finland or Lake Ladoga Region.

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/n- ... ivity-feed
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:39 pm
Juhani, I think my ancestral homeland of N-L1022* is amazing. I was hopeful that the results from my Walk Through the Y (WTY) test would make a contribution to the Genetic Genealogy community when I had FTDNA tested my YDNA back in November 2011. However, the extent that others who share L1022 have been participating is truly outstanding because we have now reached a point where good estimates can be make of the location of the origins this SNP. With all the great folks, that include you and Stenhög, who have been helping to make this all happen I am very pleased and grateful. Best regards, James
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:05 am
I have just noticed that Tigner (404553) of Tingstag (near Norrkoping in the Östergötland region of east Sweden) has tested Y5003+. Also, Tigner is the first Y5003+ kit that shares the rare DYS392=15 value with the Crowther N-Y5003* kits (73958, 90093, and N73880) of West Yorkshire. Östergötland has over 250 Viking age rune stones and many of these mention travels to the west and England. Could this be the start of a N-Y5003* connection between Östergötland and Yorkshire?
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YDNA:
N-Z35267
MtDNA:
H7a
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:33 pm
Hello James

Do you know if he plans to take a Yfull test? It would be greate if he would also join the Baltic sea and North eurasian projects.
He has an interesting haplotype.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:56 pm
MACK wrote:Hello James

Do you know if he plans to take a Yfull test? It would be greate if he would also join the Baltic sea and North eurasian projects.
He has an interesting haplotype.


Howdy MACK,

I will have to check. I am not sure whether he has done the BigY or whether he just did the N-SNP pack. There are five new kits that I am monitoring that I think would be particularly interesting to the Y5003 group. In addition to Tigner's kit there is Sigfridsson (393169) from Hilakko, Finland, Skogberg (318501) from Norrala, Sweden, and Joransson (N10231) from Karjaloha, Finland. The last three kits all have the rare DYS393=15 value. Skogberg is getting the N-SNP pack test now so we will know whether he is Y5003+. Sigfridsson who is already known as N-Y5003* is getting his BigY done now and we are waiting to know what are his results. Should be interesting especially with the two Swedish kits as I believe this could help shed some light on the migration of Y5003 from southwest Finland to Sweden.
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Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:52 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
YDNA:
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MtDNA:
U5a1a1d
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:38 pm
James B Crowther wrote:
MACK wrote:Hello James

Do you know if he plans to take a Yfull test? It would be greate if he would also join the Baltic sea and North eurasian projects.
He has an interesting haplotype.


Howdy MACK,

I will have to check. I am not sure whether he has done the BigY or whether he just did the N-SNP pack. There are five new kits that I am monitoring that I think would be particularly interesting to the Y5003 group. In addition to Tigner's kit there is Sigfridsson (393169) from Hilakko, Finland, Skogberg (318501) from Norrala, Sweden, and Joransson (N10231) from Karjaloha, Finland. The last three kits all have the rare DYS393=15 value. Skogberg is getting the N-SNP pack test now so we will know whether he is Y5003+. Sigfridsson who is already known as N-Y5003* is getting his BigY done now and we are waiting to know what are his results. Should be interesting especially with the two Swedish kits as I believe this could help shed some light on the migration of Y5003 from southwest Finland to Sweden.


I checked and he has not purchased a BigY test yet, so cannot do YFull at this time.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:42 pm
Well, it took a little longer to do the N-SNP pack test than usual; however, the N-SNP pack test for Berlin/N56867 was completed and the results confirm that his kit is Y5003 and his terminal SNP is Z35267. I hope MACK and Hahl/284240 like having another N-Z35267 cousin added to the subclade first identified with their kits. Furthermore, Berlin's results will provide exceptional data for the FTDNA N North Eurasian project's Y5003 project effort to identify the likely migration paths of Y5003 from southwest Finland, into Sweden, Estonia, Russia, and the British Isles.
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