No italian refugium needed


Posts: 1735
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:27 am
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:Gioiello
People still do not understand that there were no R1b nor R1a people in Siberia 13,000 ybp because they would have crossed the Bering Strait along with the Native American Q people. That could mean that the R1b lines that we see in the Steppe today came through the Balkans from the Villabruna R1b clan.

I think that the "American proof" isn't a proof, because Amerindians wintered in Beringia for thousands of years before migrating to America, it is possible that they reached America long before it is thought so far, and R1b could be amongst them and being went extinct etc etc. Only positive proof are valid. Anyway we'll see...



Some say that Villabruna is an extinct Y line in Italy and yet there are 15 million R1b males living there today. My point was that we are not descended from the Mal'ta boy clan. Furthermore, rumour has it, the BB paper will not be published for another two months. They must be having problems with the results.

Posts: 2136
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:33 pm
dartraighe wrote:Some say that Villabruna is an extinct Y line in Italy and yet there are 15 million R1b males living there today. My point was that we are not descended from the Mal'ta boy clan. Furthermore, rumour has it, the BB paper will not be published for another two months. They must be having problems with the results.


Actually Davidski/Polako/Generalissimo/Wesolowski said "two months from the beginning of this month" thus at the end of April, but "April is the cruellest month" (Eliot, The Waste Land). Hope it is for all the Levantinists.

Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:36 pm

YDNA:
R1b
MtDNA:
U5
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:38 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SXgF1t2UOA
Last edited by silesian on Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 1735
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:13 am
http://semargl.me/haplogroups/maps/177/

This map of Z2103 shows that Z2103 is mostly west European.

Posts: 2136
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:37 am
dartraighe wrote:http://semargl.me/haplogroups/maps/177/

This map of Z2103 shows that Z2103 is mostly west European.


Of course these data have to be interpreted, that is what I did in these last years.
1) many R-Z2103 in East Europe are Ashkenazim, that weren't there more than one thousand years ago
2) many are R-CTS9219, come very likely from West, lacking there all the intermediate subclades from my Z2110 and CTS9219 (CTS7556, Y5592 etc.)
3) I have said which haplotypes may descend from Yamnaya and which not etc etc etc

Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:36 pm

YDNA:
R1b
MtDNA:
U5
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:06 pm
dartraighe wrote:http://semargl.me/haplogroups/maps/177/

This......
Thank you for your private pm.

Posts: 1735
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:11 pm
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:http://semargl.me/haplogroups/maps/177/

This map of Z2103 shows that Z2103 is mostly west European.


Of course these data have to be interpreted, that is what I did in these last years.
1) many R-Z2103 in East Europe are Ashkenazim, that weren't there more than one thousand years ago
2) many are R-CTS9219, come very likely from West, lacking there all the intermediate subclades from my Z2110 and CTS9219 (CTS7556, Y5592 etc.)
3) I have said which haplotypes may descend from Yamnaya and which not etc etc etc



Each sample in the map could represent a specific cluster. Something is wrong with the haplotype feature at semargl.me. The matches page will not show.

The Bell Beaker paper has been put on the long finger. It does not look like it will be made public in the near future. I don't think that the BB paper will solve all the issues surrounding the origins of R1b in western Europe.
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