At the origin of the European R-V88-Z7771


Posts: 2157
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:06 am
Robert Avery
Kind admins... my V88 SNP came back and appears to be negative on the certificate, but V88 now shows as my confirmed haplogroup on my profile. I'm very confused. Would one of you please take a look when you have a moment? Kit 586752... best regards, Bob
Joe Bork 10 hours ago
Hi Bob, You are V88+. Click the DNA Results link on the of left side of this page. Then click the SNPs link. It's is a good time to consider the Big Y test to better develop the R1b-V88 haplogroup.
Like Eugene Pancheri likes this
Robert Avery 10 hours ago
Thank you Joe, I just ordered BigY thanks to the excellent sale price, Cheers, Bob Like Joe Bork likes this
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Of course that shit Yankee of Joe Borkmann deleted my post as Giorgio Tognarelli ( but how can you be with him, Sergey?):
Your haplotype has all the carachteristics of being R-V88:
586752 Archibald Avery, B. before 1850 Canada R-V88
13 24 15 11 13-15 12 12 11 14 13 30 19 8-10 11 12 28 14 18 26 13-13-14-15 11 12 21-23 15 17 18 19 32-35 12 12 12 8 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 21-23 14 11 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 13 32 15 9 16 11 24 26 19 14 11 13 12 10 9 11 11 10 11 11 31 12 13 24 13 11 11 23 15 19 11 23 15 12 15 26 12 23 18 11 14 19 10 12 11
I'd be very surprised if it weren't and if V88 negative weren't a mistake or a back mutation.
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I'd have asked him the same, as Avery is very likely an R-V88-Y7771, i.e. from the European R-V88 migrated from Italy to Iberia 7500 years ago and which is at the origin of all the African subclades. We'll see through his Big Y.

Posts: 1808
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:06 pm
Gioiello
There 1000 ancient dna samples in a lab that are not going to be made public. There are some people who think that 200 BB samples are about to solve a lot of their identity problems for them and I can assure them now that they will not.

Posts: 1808
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:06 pm
Gioiello wrote:Robert Avery
Kind admins... my V88 SNP came back and appears to be negative on the certificate, but V88 now shows as my confirmed haplogroup on my profile. I'm very confused. Would one of you please take a look when you have a moment? Kit 586752... best regards, Bob
Joe Bork 10 hours ago
Hi Bob, You are V88+. Click the DNA Results link on the of left side of this page. Then click the SNPs link. It's is a good time to consider the Big Y test to better develop the R1b-V88 haplogroup.
Like Eugene Pancheri likes this
Robert Avery 10 hours ago
Thank you Joe, I just ordered BigY thanks to the excellent sale price, Cheers, Bob Like Joe Bork likes this
--------------------------------------------
Of course that shit Yankee of Joe Borkmann deleted my post as Giorgio Tognarelli ( but how can you be with him, Sergey?):
Your haplotype has all the carachteristics of being R-V88:
586752 Archibald Avery, B. before 1850 Canada R-V88
13 24 15 11 13-15 12 12 11 14 13 30 19 8-10 11 12 28 14 18 26 13-13-14-15 11 12 21-23 15 17 18 19 32-35 12 12 12 8 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 21-23 14 11 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 13 32 15 9 16 11 24 26 19 14 11 13 12 10 9 11 11 10 11 11 31 12 13 24 13 11 11 23 15 19 11 23 15 12 15 26 12 23 18 11 14 19 10 12 11
I'd be very surprised if it weren't and if V88 negative weren't a mistake or a back mutation.
--------------------------------------------
I'd have asked him the same, as Avery is very likely an R-V88-Y7771, i.e. from the European R-V88 migrated from Italy to Iberia 7500 years ago and which is at the origin of all the African subclades. We'll see through his Big Y.



https://isogg.org/wiki/Western_Atlantic_Modal_Haplotype

The modal haplotype for L278, M269 and V88 is the WAMH. This was the haplotype also of the Villabruna R1b clan and his 15 million Italian descendants are the proof.

I would be surprised if the Amesbury Archer was not R1b-U152.

Posts: 1808
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 2:57 pm
I was wrong about the Amesbury Archer. He was L21. This is not his dna but the dna of someone who buried close to him and some think was his son.
BB_Britain BB_England_SOU I2565 R1b1a1a2a1a2c W1+119 2470-2140 calBCE Great Britain M

Posts: 1808
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:38 am
Gioiello
Could you explain to some of these dreamers that Yamna culture and CWC never reached Italy but that Italy contains some of the most diverse R1b haplotypes in Europe and that 15 million Italians are R1b? That is proof that the link between western R1b and the "Yamna autosomal dna" is manufactured to say the least.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture

FTDNA's ancient origins show that I have 50% WHG, 39% Farmer and 11% Metal Age autosomal dna. That is not what this new dna paper states about their samples. A 93% replacement dna in the BA is not believable. They did not produce enough Neolithic samples for Britain to make such a statement about YDNA replacement. The amount of R1b in the Balkans Mesolithic and Neolithic does not make sense considering the amount of R1b there today.

Here below is a German P312 BB which shows that P312 was very well established in western Europe by 4,500 ybp.

BB_Central_Europe BB_Germany_BAVm I4144 R1b1a1a2a1a2 K1c1 [b]2572-2512 calBCE
Germany M [/b]

K1c1 is particularly common in Slavic countries. Perhaps this German BB got his "Yamna dna" from his mother.

Posts: 1808
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:40 pm
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... udy-finds/

"Around 4,500 years ago, a mysterious craze for bell-shaped pottery swept across prehistoric Europe. Archaeologists have debated the significance of the pots—artefacts that define the ‘Bell Beaker’ culture—for more than a century. Some argue that they were the Bronze Age’s hottest fashion, shared across different groups of people. But others see them as evidence for an immense migration of ‘Beaker folk’ across the continent."


THE BELL BEAKER PHENOMENON

"The variety of Beaker artefacts makes it hard to define them as emerging from one distinctive culture: many researchers prefer to call their spread the ‘Bell Beaker phenomenon’, says Marc Vander Linden, an archaeologist at University College London. The distinctive pots, possibly used as drinking vessels, are nearly ubiquitous; flint arrowheads, copper daggers and stone wrist guards are common, too. But there are regional differences in ceramics and burial style. And the immense, yet discontinuous, geographical range of Beaker sites—from Scandinavia to Morocco, and Ireland to Hungary—has sown more confusion. After a few hundred years, the pots vanish from the record."

"Reich’s team calculates that Britain saw a greater than 90% shift in its genetic make-up. But Roberts says he doesn’t see evidence for such a huge shift in the archaeological record. The rise of cremation in Bronze Age Britain could have biased the finding, he cautions, because it might have eliminated bones that could have been sampled for DNA. Although archaeologists are excited to see ancient DNA yield breakthroughs in problems that have vexed their field for decades, says Linden, he expects some push back against the latest study’s conclusions. “It’s not at all the end of the story.”"

Posts: 1808
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:27 am
Gioello
The scientists have 2,000 ancient samples in their labs and the majority of them they did not publish. Why did they not publish those that show the R1b SNP trail from the Steppe to Ireland?! They didn't because they cannot. Instead they show us the autosomal dna link, colour coded green for the CHG, that the Steppe people had but they failed to pass it on to the Iberians, even though they are 90% R1b.

Posts: 1808
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:49 am
A poster on eurogenes writes;
@Steppe Haters

"Considering how unique genetically Yamnaya was, where the heck do you think the loads of EHG and CHG in Bell Beaker and Corded Ware and Vucedol and Unetice is from?!

Y'all need to finally just admit that there was a massive migration from the Steppe into Europe that eventually affected every piece of land in Europe except for Sardinia."

Gioiello
I don't know what he is on about. You and I want him to show us the R1b-L11 from the Samara who populated western Europe. He will not be able to show us because L11 was born in western Europe. The whole Steppe theory is to do with language not genetics. We do not hate or dislike the Steppe or its people, but the nonsense that is being shoved down our throats for the past ten years, like there were no R1b males in west Europe until 4,500 ybp. The truth is out now and some still cannot accept it. R1b Villabruna shocked all of them. And, they are still twisting the story even though lots of ancient R1b has now been found in the Balkans.

We know now that the BB people did not belong to one single YDNA group which was another myth that was created. We have I2a, G2a and R1b found in the BB graves.

Posts: 2157
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 12:35 pm
Just for staying on the argument of this thread. This Italian belongs to the same cluster of Avery named above:
522379 Frank Michael Rosano b. 1893 and d. 1956 Italy R-M173
13 23 15 11 14-14 12 12 13 14 13 30 18 9-9 11 13 26 14 19 29 15-15-15-15 10 12 21-23 15 16 17 18 35-35 12 11 12 8 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 21-23 14 11 12 12 13 8 11 21 21 13 12 10 13 12 12 12 12
i.e. R-V88-Z7771+/V69-, ancestor of all the African and Middle Eastern subclades V69+, so every old subclade has an Italian counterpart, for that I think that R-V88 wintered in the Italian Refugium as other haplogroups, but of course only the aDNA is the proof.

Posts: 1808
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:44 pm
Gioiello wrote:Just for staying on the argument of this thread. This Italian belongs to the same cluster of Avery named above:
522379 Frank Michael Rosano b. 1893 and d. 1956 Italy R-M173
13 23 15 11 14-14 12 12 13 14 13 30 18 9-9 11 13 26 14 19 29 15-15-15-15 10 12 21-23 15 16 17 18 35-35 12 11 12 8 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 21-23 14 11 12 12 13 8 11 21 21 13 12 10 13 12 12 12 12
i.e. R-V88-Z7771+/V69-, ancestor of all the African and Middle Eastern subclades V69+, so every old subclade has an Italian counterpart, for that I think that R-V88 wintered in the Italian Refugium as other haplogroups, but of course only the aDNA is the proof.



There are a lot of basal R1b branches in Italy and we need 350 ancient dna samples from Italy not from Hungary.

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