Sardinian R-L23-Z2110-CTS699 and Vucedol


Posts: 2409
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:40 pm
This sample
I3499 Croatia Vučedol 2884–2666
is linked with Sardinian sample 987 (Francalacci et al. 2015): R-L23-Z2110-CTS699.

The calls show that I3499 belonged to Y haplogroup R1b1a1a2a2~Z2103.
R1b-M343-M343/PF6242
R1b-M343-M415/PF6251
R1b-M343-CTS2134/FGC47/PF6253
R1b-M343-CTS2229/FGC31/PF6254
R1b-M343-L1349/PF6268/YSC0000231
R1b-M343-PF6272
R1b-M343-PH155-PH200-BY14576-SK2055
R1b-M343-L754-A702/Z8137
R1b-M343-L754-CTS2702/PF6099/Z8132
R1b-M343-L754-CTS2703
R1b-M343-L754-CTS7585
R1b-M343-L754-FGC35/PF6150
R1b-M343-L754-FGC36/Z8006/Z8138/Y409
R1b-M343-L754-FGC41/M2190/SK2062/V1501/Z8135/Y108
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-CTS3876/PF6458
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-CTS7904/FGC32/PF6471
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-CTS9018/FGC188/PF6484
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-FGC46/Y97/Z8144
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-PF6451/YSC0000166
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-PF6475/S17/YSC0000269
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-CTS10834
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-CTS11468/FGC49/PF6520
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-CTS12478/PF6529
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-CTS1274/FGC34/PF6422
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-CTS1415
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-CTS1416
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-CTS2466/PF6453
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-CTS2701/PF6098
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-CTS2704/PF6100
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-CTS4608/FGC43/PF6461
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-CTS623/FGC37/PF6419
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-CTS6832/PF6467
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-CTS7659/FGC50/PF6470
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-CTS894/PF6420/YSC0001293
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-F69/L773/PF6421/YSC0000276
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-L1351/PF6528/YSC0000240
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-L150.1/PF6274.1/S351.1
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-L753/PF6486/YSC0000018
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-L757/PF6488/YSC0000293/V3721
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-L777/YSC0000248
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-PF6412
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-PF6430
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-PF6434
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-PF6438
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-PF6482/YSC0000203
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-PF6495
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-PF6503
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-PF6527
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-L23-L23/S141/PF6534
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-L23-CTS7340.1-Z2105
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-L23-CTS7340.1-A12328-L584-PH1141-PH2731-Y18788-CTS9766-CTS9766/FGC192
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-L23-CTS7340.1-GG536-CTS2437-CTS347-Y37188-Y37189
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-L23-CTS7340.1-GG536-CTS1843-A12348-A12349-A12351-KMS66
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-L23-CTS7340.1-GG536-CTS1843-CTS7822-CTS699-Z29823-Y:9187534-Y:20313620
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-L23-CTS7340.1-GG536-CTS1843-CTS7822-CTS7556-GG649-BY20202-PF2642-PF2642
R1b-M343-L754-L388-P297-M269-L23-L51-FGC796-S1194-CTS4528-S14328-PF2642-PF2642

Posts: 2409
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:04 pm
These are the SNPs in common:
10701 18 Heterochromatic 22475506 G T G R 987

Hg19: 22475506/ hg38: 20313620 (G>T)/BY30521

10698 6 Ampliconic 9025143 T C T R 987
Hg19: 9025143/hg38: 9187534 (T>C)

Posts: 2409
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:01 pm
Of course that a sample of 4800 years ago had already two private mutations (at least) of a subclade separated after 15 SNPs (as to YFull) after the calcultated age of 4300 years ago makes us doubt about the reliability of YFull ages (this said with all the limits of a test at a low coverage as Francalacci et al. 2013/2015, but these two private mutations belong to the same sample, so it is difficult that they belong to both and are upstream):

• R-CTS699 CTS699 * Y36455 * S11762 formed 5700 ybp, TMRCA 4300 ybp
o R-CTS699*
 id:YF10633ITA [IT-BA]
 id:HG01277COL
o R-Z29827 Z29823 * Z29832 * Z29834+12 SNPs
 id:ERS256996ITA [IT-CA]
 id:ERS256997ITA [IT-CA]

Posts: 2231
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:18 am
Gioiello wrote:Of course that a sample of 4800 years ago had already two private mutations (at least) of a subclade separated after 15 SNPs (as to YFull) after the calcultated age of 4300 years ago makes us doubt about the reliability of YFull ages (this said with all the limits of a test at a low coverage as Francalacci et al. 2013/2015, but these two private mutations belong to the same sample, so it is difficult that they belong to both and are upstream):

• R-CTS699 CTS699 * Y36455 * S11762 formed 5700 ybp, TMRCA 4300 ybp
o R-CTS699*
 id:YF10633ITA [IT-BA]
 id:HG01277COL
o R-Z29827 Z29823 * Z29832 * Z29834+12 SNPs
 id:ERS256996ITA [IT-CA]
 id:ERS256997ITA [IT-CA]


Gioiello
Some R1b males had to belong to the Baden Culture. Has any ancient dna samples been linked to this culture?

Oppenheimer stated in his book that some R1a reached western Europe in the Neolithic. Some R1a people at eurogenes blog would not agree with that.

Posts: 2409
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:22 am
dartraighe wrote:Oppenheimer stated in his book that some R1a reached western Europe in the Neolithic. Some R1a people at eurogenes blog would not agree with that.


Some R1a in Italy are very old, not only at this level (R-YP4131YP4204 * YP4201 * YP4181+25 SNPs formed 5500 ybp, TMRCA 1050 ybp) but also these samples:
R-Z93 Z2479/M746/S4582/V3664 * Z93/F992/S202 formed 5000 ybp, TMRCA 4800 ybp
• id:ERS256938ITA [IT-CA]
• R-Z93*
o id:YF07986ITA [IT-SA]
o id:YF03565
o id:YF01991RUS

Posts: 2231
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:10 pm
16561 R1a
Sample dating: 4045-3974 calBCE (5215 ± 20BP, PSUAMS-2832)

This is yet another ancient sample that YFull underestimates by at least 10-20%.

Posts: 2409
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:16 pm
dartraighe wrote:
16561 R1a


You Always write 1- but very likely it is a letter: I, thus I6561.

Posts: 2231
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:48 pm
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:
16561 R1a


You Always write 1- but very likely it is a letter: I, thus I6561.


I always make mistakes too because I am human.

If the TMRCA for U106 is 20% more than Yfull gives at present then U106 originated in the Neolithic, and I have written about it many times.

Some posters persist with the Steppe origin of U106 and P312 even though there is absolutely no evidence. Perhaps they think that if they write it often enough it will become true. The scientists know that U106 and P312 were not born in the Steppe.

There is a lot more digging to be done in western Europe before the jigsaw is complete.

Posts: 2231
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:03 am
http://eurogenes.blogspot.ie/2018/03/be ... peans.html


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RlA0v4 ... vIjU_/view

This PCA from Eurogenes blog shows that the modern Irish cluster with the BB but the not with the Yamnaya!!!!!

The Yamnaya do not cluster with Bell Beakers in this PCA even though the BB are supposed to be derived from the Yamnaya. There are only 29 comments in this thread at eurogenes.

There is 4,500 years between the modern Irish and the BB and the Yamnaya and BB were born in the same era.

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