New DNA Papers

General discussions regarding DNA and its uses in genealogy research

Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:45 am
Of course at Maykop only R1b from Yamnaya, thus all my theories stand up. Say Dritte Reich that tests Italian aDNA he got in his lab!

Posts: 2278
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:51 am
Gioiello wrote:Of course at Maykop only R1b from Yamnaya, thus all my theories stand up. Say Dritte Reich that tests Italian aDNA he got in his lab!


What happened to the Z2103 ancient dna sample from Iran? Was it airbrushed from this dna paper?

Where are the ancient dna samples from the western Ukraine that shows a Ukrainian origin for L51,L11,P312 and U106?

If it takes only two generations to drop down steppe ancestry to 15% then we should have no Steppe ancestry after 150 generations. Why are the experts on autosomal dna saying that we modern Irish have Steppe dna?!!

Some anthrogenica posters ignore the fact that 50% of the Bell Beaker graves contained females and they still write that the BB were a warrior society. Also, Bell Beaker women came from the Steppe and Bell Beaker women were treated as equals by their men.

Posts: 2278
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:37 pm
Some people think that P312 and U106 are of western/central European origin and I think that they are right. If the scientists do not find the ancestors of P312 and U106 or P312 and U106 in ancient dna in western Ukraine then the anti Iberian origin R1b people will just have to accept it.

Right from the very first time that Prof Sykes spoke about R1b he was given a lot of grief about it and that was long before any ancient dna tests were carried out. There are some posters who were against an Iberian origin without the evidence which is why they were accused of having an agenda.

The "anti Iberian origin for R1b" posters have always maintained that R1b did not expand from Iberia after the Ice-Age and they were right. There is no evidence of R1b L51 in Iberia until the BA so far. There is no evidence of R1b L51 in Italy in the Neolithic but there is in the BA. And there is no evidence of R1b L51, L11, P312and U106 in the Steppe at all so far.

Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:25 pm
dartraighe wrote:There is no evidence of R1b L51 in Italy in the Neolithic but there is in the BA.


Are you sure about that?
In Italy they tested
a) Villabruna R1b1 14000 YBP
b) Oetzi G-L91 5300 YBP
c) 3 hg I at Remedello
d) R1b1a2 downstream L11 Parma 4200 YBP

No people from Tuscany and Liguria has been tested where we have the oldest R-L51-PF7589...

Are you sure that Italy is tested at the level of the hundreds of samples as in other countries, included the Isles?

Posts: 2278
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:28 pm
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:There is no evidence of R1b L51 in Italy in the Neolithic but there is in the BA.


Are you sure about that?
In Italy they tested
a) Villabruna R1b1 14000 YBP
b) Oetzi G-L91 5300 YBP
c) 3 hg I at Remedello
d) R1b1a2 downstream L11 Parma 4200 YBP

No people from Tuscany and Liguria has been tested where we have the oldest R-L51-PF7589...

Are you sure that Italy is tested at the level of the hundreds of samples as in other countries, included the Isles?



There are no Neolithic ancient dna R1b samples found in Italy to date.

Posts: 2278
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 6:51 am
Gioiello
R1b has been found in the Khvalynsk Culture. It will be interesting to see the results. P312 and U106 cannot be that old or can they?! If P312 and U106 originated in the Khvalynsk where are the descendants in the area between there and France. All the hotspots for P312 and U106 are in western Europe and cannot be ignored.

Your rare Z2110* group does look western European origin, is dated by Yfull to 5,700 and is earlier than the Z2103 ancient samples collected in eastern Europe.


Have you read these?

https://indo-european.eu/2018/01/the-in ... sociation/


https://indo-european.eu/2018/05/the-un ... pe-burial/

" In fact, the appearance of R1b-M269* and/or L23* linked to expanding Khvalynsk could be the perfect end to the resurging theories on Armenian or Western European origin of this haplogroup."

Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:30 am
dartraighe wrote:Gioiello
R1b has been found in the Khvalynsk Culture. It will be interesting to see the results. P312 and U106 cannot be that old or can they?! If P312 and U106 originated in the Khvalynsk where are the descendants in the area between there and France. All the hotspots for P312 and U106 are in western Europe and cannot be ignored.

Your rare Z2110* group does look western European origin, is dated by Yfull to 5,700 and is earlier than the Z2103 ancient samples collected in eastern Europe.


Have you read these?

https://indo-european.eu/2018/01/the-in ... sociation/


https://indo-european.eu/2018/05/the-un ... pe-burial/

" In fact, the appearance of R1b-M269* and/or L23* linked to expanding Khvalynsk could be the perfect end to the resurging theories on Armenian or Western European origin of this haplogroup."


Carlos Quiles is a moron who, like a parrot, repeats and repeats what others say, more or less as Maciamo Hay, who continues to say that R-V88 was born in Middle East after ten years that I demonstrated the other way around: Italian Refugium and expansion to east and west and after to Northern Africa. When I get the data, I'll say more.

Posts: 2278
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 12:34 pm
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:Gioiello
R1b has been found in the Khvalynsk Culture. It will be interesting to see the results. P312 and U106 cannot be that old or can they?! If P312 and U106 originated in the Khvalynsk where are the descendants in the area between there and France. All the hotspots for P312 and U106 are in western Europe and cannot be ignored.

Your rare Z2110* group does look western European origin, is dated by Yfull to 5,700 and is earlier than the Z2103 ancient samples collected in eastern Europe.


Have you read these?

https://indo-european.eu/2018/01/the-in ... sociation/


https://indo-european.eu/2018/05/the-un ... pe-burial/

" In fact, the appearance of R1b-M269* and/or L23* linked to expanding Khvalynsk could be the perfect end to the resurging theories on Armenian or Western European origin of this haplogroup."


Carlos Quiles is a moron who, like a parrot, repeats and repeats what others say, more or less as Maciamo Hay, who continues to say that R-V88 was born in Middle East after ten years that I demonstrated the other way around: Italian Refugium and expansion to east and west and after to Northern Africa. When I get the data, I'll say more.



Gioiello
If the earliest P312 and U106 is found in the Khvalynsk Culture then it will be a game changer for all.

Mr Eurogenes does not Like Carlos so Carlos must be doing something right and it is not right to call him a moron. Carlos is willing to change his theory with any new evidence that comes about. On the other hand, Mr Eurogenes makes everything fit with the way that he thinks, and he actually thinks that he has an IQ score of 300 or more!!!

Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 3:27 pm
dartraighe wrote:
Gioiello
If the earliest P312 and U106 is found in the Khvalynsk Culture then it will be a game changer for all.

Mr Eurogenes does not Like Carlos so Carlos must be doing something right and it is not right to call him a moron. Carlos is willing to change his theory with any new evidence that comes about. On the other hand, Mr Eurogenes makes everything fit with the way that he thinks, and he actually thinks that he has an IQ score of 300 or more!!!


The question isn't Mr Eurogenes, who cannot be so stupid to think to get a 300 IQ whereas Mozart had 220, but the fact that about this supposed DNA from Khvalinsk many doubt, and it is meaningful that smal (Sergey Malyshev), one the most reliable, didn't write anything on molgen in Russian (which is his language). These samples are difficult to test and to interpret and I believe only in Genetiker's calculator or in YFull. Another moron thought that MA2212 were J-Y37496 and continues to say that even though I demonstrated that it is J-Y9268*, and all changes about its origin.

Posts: 2278
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:09 pm
For the past 12 years some posters or I could add the same posters, have argued against the origin of R1b L51 in western Europe where it is found in abundance today, and with the ancient dna evidence was also abundant in western Europe 4,500 plus years ago. Those posters are dead set against R1b continuity in western/central Europe and it is because of politics but a lot of testers know it and will not write about it.

An Iberian refuge or Italian refuge for R1b was never going to be acceptable to them. The lack of R1b in western Europe in ancient dna samples was music to their ears.

So, why has the ancestors of P312 and U106 not been found in any part of Europe in the Neolithic so far? It has to be down to the L51 bottleneck and before that the huge M269 bottleneck. If Villabruna's R1b clan was the ancestor of the present R1b population in western Europe it definitely is not a popular view with some. They would like to think that M269 spent a while in eastern Europe and came back speaking the PIE language. Some of them have a very strong emotional attachment to the PIE. The Caucasus is not popular because R1b was scarce there in the BA and Neolithic. And farmers are not warriors.


Using M222 as an analogy for L51. Until 2,000 years ago M222 was anonymous in Ireland and Scotland. Where would the scientists even begin to look for the M222 ancestral line that went through the bottleneck for at least 2,000 years? I do not think that they will ever find one ancient sample that they can be sure of was the ancestor of M222 that died during the bottleneck period.

There was a population explosion in the Neolithic and what was the name of the language or the language group that the farmers carried into western Europe? Were the farmers wiped out by the BA peoples?
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