J2a3/4* (J-L26*): new SNPs to test: L250.2, L251.2, L1064

Any discussions about this haplogroup

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YDNA:
J-L556
MtDNA:
H5c2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:33 pm
FYI, J2a4-kits, that were tested for L229 and therefore have chromats to be quickly checked for L250.2, L251.2, L1064, are :
205250
M7436
217812
202853
77450
216669
M7239
182443
205145
N100355
207796
N37321
212279
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:07 pm
JaG wrote:FYI, J2a4-kits, that were tested for L229 and therefore have chromats to be quickly checked for L250.2, L251.2, L1064, are : ...

Thanks JaG. I'm however not able to understand really the relation of L229 with the new SNPs and the term "chromats". I have to guess that these SNPs are all in the same region of the Y chromosome? In my case I'm tested L229- and when I ordered the new SNPs I had the L250.2+ result in only two days, but the other two are still in lab progress?
DNA/Admixture Central Europe (Alps, Tyrol, Dolomites, Raetia); Y-DNA J2a-L1064, J2a-L210, R1a-M17, R1b-U106 (L48-); mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects : J2-M172, J2a-PF5197, Alpine DNA, ISOGG Wiki

Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:03 pm

YDNA:
J-L556
MtDNA:
H5c2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:55 pm
Part of the segment

For example, a part of the chromat for that segment (without mutations):
Attachments
Chromat.png
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Posts: 102
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Location: USA
YDNA:
J2a1i (father)
MtDNA:
I1a1b
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:45 pm
ChrisR wrote:
JaG wrote:FYI, J2a4-kits, that were tested for L229 and therefore have chromats to be quickly checked for L250.2, L251.2, L1064, are : ...

Thanks JaG. I'm however not able to understand really the relation of L229 with the new SNPs and the term "chromats". I have to guess that these SNPs are all in the same region of the Y chromosome? In my case I'm tested L229- and when I ordered the new SNPs I had the L250.2+ result in only two days, but the other two are still in lab progress?


Hi Chris,

Yes, L229 is in the same segment as the new SNPs. It doesn't quite show up on the chromat posted by JaG, so let me show this view from Ymap:
L229-L250.jpg


A chromat is a short form of "chromatogram," I believe, a term for a lab read-out.

I don't understand why your other two orders have been delayed, that doesn't make sense to me, either.

Thanks for the list of kits, JaG. Now that's a task, for us to look them up, and write to each of them...

Bonnie
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Posts: 102
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Location: USA
YDNA:
J2a1i (father)
MtDNA:
I1a1b
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:51 pm
Here's another big surprise! Final Deep Clade results for M6882 show that he is positive for M68, and therefore, is J2a3c/J2a4c!

This is a very rare clade. We can now hypothesize that it's downstream of L250.2, L251.2.

I hope we can get one of the other members of J2a3c to test L250.2, to confirm this phylogenetic position.

It could turn out that L1064 is a brother clade, related to M68. Let's analyze all the haplotypes again in relation to the other 110692, who's M68.

I have to go now, but things just keep getting more interesting!

Bonnie
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:22 pm
@JaG & Bonnie: Thanks for your explanations. So basically by testing SNPs like L229 the lab has a chromat/"chromatogram" read-out, where the result for other SNPs nearby is available. I still don't understand how long (position range) the chromat of FTDNA is: JaG has linked to 101 bp ChrY, Position 6,813,360 - 6,813,460.

About M6882 J2a3c/J2a4c (M68+): sounds very interesting. Hope I can look in detail to that later.

EDIT: New result
E4955 L250.2+, L251.2+, L1064+


Here is a J2a3 (ISOGG 2012, L26+) 2 level Subclades Draft by me (also available in the Project Archive as PDF):
@Bonnie: Do you know something about "your" #9856 result for L250.2 and/or L251.2?
Last edited by ChrisR on Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DNA/Admixture Central Europe (Alps, Tyrol, Dolomites, Raetia); Y-DNA J2a-L1064, J2a-L210, R1a-M17, R1b-U106 (L48-); mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects : J2-M172, J2a-PF5197, Alpine DNA, ISOGG Wiki
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YDNA:
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MtDNA:
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:54 pm
Hi Chris and all,

I just wanted to report that Roy King was able to share some very helpful information from Peter Underhill, on M68+ samples. These are all they know of. M68 was discovered in the first one.

1. Tadjik sample collected by Spencer Wells in Central Asia
2. Indian sample collected by Ornella Semino
3. Iraqi sample collected by Ornella Semino

The latter two are found in Semino's classic E & J paper.

So we have samples from two of the three locations! Not many Tadjiks involved in genetic genealogy yet. ;)

The geographic range of these seems relatively Eastern, for J.

Bonnie
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:19 am
Rootsy wrote:Roy King was able to share some very helpful information from Peter Underhill, on M68+ samples. ... The geographic range of these seems relatively Eastern, for J.

Thanks to you, Roy K. and Peter U. for that info.
Hmm. If M68 is so widespread and downstream of L250.2/L251.2, then these two must be more widespread and older. My feeling about many J2a3* samples and also possibly other known SNPs downstream of L26 being positive for L250.2/L251.2, increases. I guess we should check every L26 subclade for M68- kits; better if we get one L250.2- for every suspicious clade. Tomorrow can bring new evidence. :D

EDIT 23 June:
The J-L26 subtree probably changes again. L927 will rule. Look in these thread for a draft image to understand the possible situation better: J-L26 J2a3/J2a4 subclades SNP discoveries news info .
DNA/Admixture Central Europe (Alps, Tyrol, Dolomites, Raetia); Y-DNA J2a-L1064, J2a-L210, R1a-M17, R1b-U106 (L48-); mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects : J2-M172, J2a-PF5197, Alpine DNA, ISOGG Wiki
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:24 pm
Coud it be that for kit E4955 another tested SNP that L229 was near to L250.2 etc. because L229 was not tested but instead L207.1-?
See ymap.ftdna ChrY, Position 6,813,320 bis 6,813,470

I will try to get an answer from Thomas because then we maybe will have to check a wide range of tested SNPs for chromats to be quickly checked .
DNA/Admixture Central Europe (Alps, Tyrol, Dolomites, Raetia); Y-DNA J2a-L1064, J2a-L210, R1a-M17, R1b-U106 (L48-); mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects : J2-M172, J2a-PF5197, Alpine DNA, ISOGG Wiki
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Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:26 pm
Location: USA
YDNA:
J2a1i (father)
MtDNA:
I1a1b
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:02 pm
ChrisR wrote:Coud it be that for kit E4955 another tested SNP that L229 was near to L250.2 etc. because L229 was not tested but instead L207.1-?
See ymap.ftdna ChrY, Position 6,813,320 bis 6,813,470

I will try to get an answer from Thomas because then we maybe will have to check a wide range of tested SNPs for chromats to be quickly checked .


Yes, absolutely, Chris, you're right! It must have been from L207.1 in your case. Yes, you can look up who has tested that marker.

Something I can't understand is that we don't seem to have any chart of all the SNPs tested by project members in the GAP, but it's there on the public page!

More later --

Bonnie
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