Show and comment your SMGF matches !

Discussions of y-DNA projects.
User avatar
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:26 pm
Location: USA
YDNA:
J2a1i (father)
MtDNA:
I1a1b
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:02 pm
OK, here are the best matches for J2a3i. I had to use exact matching, because if I use a percentage, it gives me tons that have DYS388=15, which aren't likely to be relevant. But in order to use exact matching, I have to reduce the number of markers a lot. If anyone wants to see all the markers, I've collected them.

The first two matches are in the project (the second one via an NPE), the second two are interesting; the last one is new.

Bonnie
Attachments
SMGF-matches.PNG
User avatar
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:10 pm
Location: Brazil
YDNA:
J1b M365+ J1a ISOGG
MtDNA:
H1ao1
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:24 pm
Very curious Bonnie. How can you try to explain that matches ? They are distant and apparently isolated in different places. Any other visible cluster in J2a3i ?
In comparison with the J1b type I think your group haplotypes' are older, they have a bigger genetic distance between their members - what is more difficult to try to find a historical movement.
J1b is concentrated in a Northern Iranian cluster and a Western Iberian cluster.
A new Iranian haplotype in the last SMGF's batch and the exclusive light blue panel with 14 markers is already showing the two J1b clusters. The distance between the clusters is 1500-2000 years approximately. The SMGF Iranian cases are far better than FTDNA's.
Attachments
J1b modal com todos.jpg
J1b Quase Azul.jpg
J1b Tudo Azul.jpg
Y DNA - Barcelos - Minho - Portugal. Colonial Brazil
MtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
Brazilian Portuguese Founding People
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/m365/
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Brasil/
http://j1bm365.blogspot.com.br/
User avatar
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:00 pm

YDNA:
J1-L858
MtDNA:
HV1a'b'c
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:30 pm
Rootsy wrote:Marco,

Hey, that's nice, good for you! My family has only anonymous matches from Iraq.

I would say only the first two Al-Zebary matches are meaningful in your case. The others look like they belong to a completely different cluster or haplogroup. Note that they don't have either 8-9 at DYS459, or 22-22 at YCAII, for example.

Bonnie


I created an Ysearch account including the matching markers between myself and Zebary in order to see how widespread this haplotype is and that's what I've got.

The closest match is Kit# M6912, Al-Awlaqi from Yemen with a genetic distance of 4 on 34 markers. Bytheway Awlaqi is apart from Zebary also a closer match of mine.

So Zebary might be a very relevant match from Kurdistan! :)

And, unlike Al-Madi from Jordan, Zebary has DYS388=16 which very often (but not always) is one of the dividing markers under J1c3d*. All my closer matches from Austria and Germany have also DYS388=16!
Attachments
Zebary-Ricci matching markers haplotype and matches.jpg
Paternal: J1-L858 (Z643+ P58+ L858+ L620+ L572+ L147.1+ L817+ Z644- Z642- Z641- Z640- M369- M368- M367- L93- L92- L897- L859- L829- L65.2- L616- L615- L585- L222.2- L174- L1279- L1253- YSC0000076-)
FTDNA Kit: E13058, Full Genomes Kit: FG1014
Maternal: HV1a'b'c
Father's Maternal: T1*
Mother's Paternal: R1b-Z142 (Z49+ Z142+ L2+ Z367- M228.2- L562- L553- L552- L21- L20- L196- L193-)
FTDNA Kit: E14371
User avatar
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:00 pm

YDNA:
J1-L858
MtDNA:
HV1a'b'c
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:57 pm
Here is the SMGF TMRCA calculation for Zebary and myself:
Attachments
TMRCA Zebary-Ricci.jpg
Paternal: J1-L858 (Z643+ P58+ L858+ L620+ L572+ L147.1+ L817+ Z644- Z642- Z641- Z640- M369- M368- M367- L93- L92- L897- L859- L829- L65.2- L616- L615- L585- L222.2- L174- L1279- L1253- YSC0000076-)
FTDNA Kit: E13058, Full Genomes Kit: FG1014
Maternal: HV1a'b'c
Father's Maternal: T1*
Mother's Paternal: R1b-Z142 (Z49+ Z142+ L2+ Z367- M228.2- L562- L553- L552- L21- L20- L196- L193-)
FTDNA Kit: E14371
User avatar
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:10 pm
Location: Brazil
YDNA:
J1b M365+ J1a ISOGG
MtDNA:
H1ao1
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:57 am
Interesting match !
Y DNA - Barcelos - Minho - Portugal. Colonial Brazil
MtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
Brazilian Portuguese Founding People
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/m365/
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Brasil/
http://j1bm365.blogspot.com.br/
User avatar
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:00 pm

YDNA:
J1-L858
MtDNA:
HV1a'b'c
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:48 pm
Hi guys,

by adjusting my mismatching markers with Zebary I have been able to find out his whole haplotype which will enable me to make a more accurate TMRCA calculation! :) See the second screenshot which shows Zebary's haplotype while the first one shows my results!

I also did the same with his closest matches: Unknown Iran, Al-Musa, Zebary and Ali, and again I found out their haplotype...

I just wonder about their DYS458=17.2 against my value of 18 which I don't know if it has been rounded up or down (I'ask FTDNA to tell me the exact value: it must be either 17.2 or 18.2)! Does anybody know whether they usually round up or down?

Beside that my own haplotype has an off-modal value of DYS447=24 while all my matches within a genealogical timeline have DYS447=25. That means that it must be a recent mutation and my own haplotype is one marker closer to Zebary! So Zebary is either a 31/36 and possibly a 32/36 marker match to me!

I was just asking myself if this case of a J1c3d* haplotype present in Kurdish/Iranian speaking populations and at the same time in Israel/Palestine is due to recent Arabic admixture or much older in both populations? To me it seems that these four haplotypes must have a MRCA within the last 1000 years! I will make a TMRCA calculation as soon as I receive my exact DYS458 value...

Within the J project also Kit# 207386, Al-Jundi from Jordan is apparently belonging to this cluster!

Thank you RCO for opening this thread! I think I'm learning a lot!

Marco
Attachments
Zebary-Kutschak SMGF Matches 1.jpg
Zebary 1 SMGF Haplotype.jpg
Paternal: J1-L858 (Z643+ P58+ L858+ L620+ L572+ L147.1+ L817+ Z644- Z642- Z641- Z640- M369- M368- M367- L93- L92- L897- L859- L829- L65.2- L616- L615- L585- L222.2- L174- L1279- L1253- YSC0000076-)
FTDNA Kit: E13058, Full Genomes Kit: FG1014
Maternal: HV1a'b'c
Father's Maternal: T1*
Mother's Paternal: R1b-Z142 (Z49+ Z142+ L2+ Z367- M228.2- L562- L553- L552- L21- L20- L196- L193-)
FTDNA Kit: E14371
User avatar
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:10 pm
Location: Brazil
YDNA:
J1b M365+ J1a ISOGG
MtDNA:
H1ao1
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:26 pm
The SMGF database is a good tool of research. In the case of DYS458 just add the.2 to your FTDNA J1 result !
Y DNA - Barcelos - Minho - Portugal. Colonial Brazil
MtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
Brazilian Portuguese Founding People
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/m365/
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Brasil/
http://j1bm365.blogspot.com.br/
User avatar
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:00 pm

YDNA:
J1-L858
MtDNA:
HV1a'b'c
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:47 pm
Here's what I got using McGee Y-Utility (McDonald mutation rates with a 50% probability):

Unfortunately the DYS464 values have not been tested in the two Zebary samples but as they are so similar in terms of genetic distance to the Arab samples from Israel/Palestine and to the unknown Iranian sample from Eastern Azerbaijan I assume that they must be 13-14-16-16!

I will post here the results including somewhat hypothetical DYS464 values for the two Zebary samples.

TMRCA results would be slightly more recent if I change my off-modal DYS447=24 to 25.

Adding closer FTDNA 111 marker matches to this calculation I get much higher values of GD for them. That's why I assume that this cluster is closer to my Central European J1c3d* cluster.

Any comments are highly appreciated! :)
Attachments
Haplotype Comparison SMGF Matches with DYS464.jpg
Genetic Distance SMGF Matches with DYS464.jpg
TMRCA SMGF Matches with DYS464.jpg
Paternal: J1-L858 (Z643+ P58+ L858+ L620+ L572+ L147.1+ L817+ Z644- Z642- Z641- Z640- M369- M368- M367- L93- L92- L897- L859- L829- L65.2- L616- L615- L585- L222.2- L174- L1279- L1253- YSC0000076-)
FTDNA Kit: E13058, Full Genomes Kit: FG1014
Maternal: HV1a'b'c
Father's Maternal: T1*
Mother's Paternal: R1b-Z142 (Z49+ Z142+ L2+ Z367- M228.2- L562- L553- L552- L21- L20- L196- L193-)
FTDNA Kit: E14371
User avatar
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:00 pm

YDNA:
J1-L858
MtDNA:
HV1a'b'c
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:27 am
Our J project member, Kit# 207386, Al-Jundi from Jordan, is clearly belonging to this new cluster!

His sample is in the same cluster as my own sample (Kit# E13058) in the J project:

J1c3d*, P58+, L147+, L222-, Z644-, L859-

So a closer genetic connection of this group seems possible also SNP-wise!
Attachments
Haplotype Comparison SMGF Matches with DYS464 incl Al-Jundi.jpg
Genetic Distance SMGF Matches with DYS464 incl Al-Jundi.jpg
TMRCA SMGF Matches with DYS464 incl Al-Jundi.jpg
Paternal: J1-L858 (Z643+ P58+ L858+ L620+ L572+ L147.1+ L817+ Z644- Z642- Z641- Z640- M369- M368- M367- L93- L92- L897- L859- L829- L65.2- L616- L615- L585- L222.2- L174- L1279- L1253- YSC0000076-)
FTDNA Kit: E13058, Full Genomes Kit: FG1014
Maternal: HV1a'b'c
Father's Maternal: T1*
Mother's Paternal: R1b-Z142 (Z49+ Z142+ L2+ Z367- M228.2- L562- L553- L552- L21- L20- L196- L193-)
FTDNA Kit: E14371

Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:59 pm

YDNA:
R1a1a1b2a1
MtDNA:
H15a1
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:47 pm
marcantonio wrote:Here's what I got using McGee Y-Utility (McDonald mutation rates with a 50% probability):

Unfortunately the DYS464 values have not been tested in the two Zebary samples but as they are so similar in terms of genetic distance to the Arab samples from Israel/Palestine and to the unknown Iranian sample from Eastern Azerbaijan I assume that they must be 13-14-16-16!

I will post here the results including somewhat hypothetical DYS464 values for the two Zebary samples.

TMRCA results would be slightly more recent if I change my off-modal DYS447=24 to 25.

Adding closer FTDNA 111 marker matches to this calculation I get much higher values of GD for them. That's why I assume that this cluster is closer to my Central European J1c3d* cluster.

Any comments are highly appreciated! :)


This is probably the most famous individual of the Kurdish Zebari tribe: Hoshyar Zebari, the current Minister of Foreign Affairs of Iraq.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoshyar_Zebari
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