Another paper, the same outcome

Any discussions regarding mt-DNA markers, results or questions.

Posts: 2348
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:08 pm
Another paper, the same outcome. The same all the rest. "Mitochondrial DNA from El Mirador Cave (Atapuerca, Spain) Reveals the Heterogeneity of Chalcolithic Populations", by Gòmez-Sànchez et al., amongst them many Italians, amongst the Italians David Caramelli. Which would have the authors demonstrated? That "El Mirador shows affinities with Near Eastern groups" . How? They use "Principal component analysis (PCA) based on mitochondrial haplogroup frequencies" and other statistical methods which may say all what the authors want. Like in a slot machine they vomit the same coins someone put in.
But, for instance, an hg. K with the mutations 16224C 16256T 16311C finds on SMGF 14 matches all from European populations, none from Middle East.
Last edited by Gioiello on Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 2348
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:31 pm
These are the matches on Mitosearch:
User ID HVR1 Mutations HVR2 Mutations
GJR4P 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C Not Tested
28REK 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C 073G, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C, 497T, 524.1C, 524.2A
32DGR 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C Not Tested
46MQQ 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C 073G, 146C, 152C, 263G, 315.1C
6MWSY 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C 073G, 263G, 309.1C, 309.2C, 315.1C, 497T, 523.1C, 523.2A
6QGFP 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C 073G, 146C, 152C, 263G, 315.1C
9K7PK 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C 073G, 146C, 195C, 263G, 315.1C, 524.1C, 524.2A, 524.3C, 524.4A, 524.5C, 524.6A
HVE74 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C Not Tested
J246Y 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C 073G, 146C, 263G, 315.1C
JE74C 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C 073G, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C, 497T, 524.1A, 524.2C
JYYJP 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C Not Tested
syrt2 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C Not Tested
UNP4P 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C Not Tested
XZP5E 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C Not Tested

And with another mutation in HVRI:
User ID HVR1 Mutations HVR2 Mutations
Q6PAV 093C, 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C Not Tested
3TSKH 093C, 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C No Mutations
4HEQM 093C, 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C 073G, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C, 497T, 524.1C, 524.2A
7JCCF 224C, 256T, 301T, 311C, 519C No Mutations
8U328 224C, 256T, 301T, 311C, 519C 073G, 146C, 152C, 263G, 315.1C, 498-
CRH22 093C, 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C Not Tested
DRQ4K 224C, 256T, 311C, 362C, 519C 073G, 195C, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C, 471C, 524.1C, 524.2A
GHP47 093C, 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C 073G, 152A, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C, 497G, 523.1C, 523.2A
HBPW5 093C, 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C 073G, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C, 497T, 523.1C, 523.2A
KAD98 093C, 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C 073G, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C, 497T, 524.1C, 524.2A
T6BFX 093C, 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C Not Tested
YSWK5 189C, 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C 073G, 150T, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C, 497T
YXVC4 093C, 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C Not Tested
ZP6ZU 093C, 224C, 256T, 311C, 519C 073G, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C, 497T, 524.1C, 524.2A

Posts: 2348
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:01 pm
Amongst the complete matches there are probably K2a:
Great Britain: 9
Italy 1
3 samples are K1a:
Great Britain: 3
9K7PK comes from Germany
-------------------------
The others:
6 K1a: Romania 1, Great Britain 4, Germany 1.
The K1c probably is from Germany, but the surname (Carignan) seems of Italian origin, even though this haplogroup isn't the most diffused in Italy amongst the hg. K, even though my wife and my children belong to it.
DRQ4K: "born 1881 in Belgium was a Catholic. She immigrated to U. S. A. Chicago, Illinois. Had sisters who immigrated to Canada".

Posts: 2348
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:50 pm
The sample named J2a1 is actually J2a1a, having the mutation 16261T. Of course this haplogroup is all European. In the Ian Logan spreadsheet the two samples of the basal J2a1 are:
JQ704041(Ireland) Behar J2a1 07-APR-2012
A73G C150T T152C T195C A263G C295T 309.1C 315.1C T489C A750G A1438G A2706G T4216C T4688C A4769G C7028T C7476T T8843C A8860G A10398G A10499G A11251G G11377A G11719A A12612G G13708A A14133G C14766T C14929T G15257A A15326G C15452A C16069T T16126C
... 23andMe('ashton') J2a1
73G 150T 152C 263G 295T 489C 750G 961C 1438G 2706G 4216C 4688C 4769G 7028T 7476T 8860G 10398G 10499G 11251G 11377A 11719A 12612G 13708A 14133G 14766T 15257A 15452A 16069T 16126C 16292T 16362G
Ashton's mother comes from Livorno, Tuscany, Italy.

Posts: 2348
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:15 am
Also hg. X2b is pretty exclusively European. No sample found so far of the mutation T16352C of the sample signed X, perhaps an extinct subclade.
T2 and T2b are exclusively European.
The K with only the mutations T16224c and T16311C may be any subclade.
The H-s HVRI=CRS aren't classifiable.
U3 with A16343G could be linked with this sample from Europe rather than to any other:
DQ156213 Monteil-Sosa U3a1 14-AUG-2005
A73G C150T A263G T710C A750G A1438G A1811G A2294G A2706G G3010A T4703C A4769G A4985G C6518T C7028T A8860G G9266A A10506G T10604C A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A C13934T A14139G C14766T A15326G T15454C A16343G
J1 with C16069T T16126C C16193T G16274A C16278T could be
35. JQ797901(Iran) Pala J1d5 22-MAY-2012
A73G C150T T152C T204C A263G C295T 315.1C C462T T489C A750G A1438G A2706G G3010A T4216C A4769G G4853A T5075C C7028T G7789A A7963G A8860G T9090C A10398G A11251G G11719A A12612G C13132T G13708A C14766T A15326G C15452A C16069T T16126C C16193T G16274A T16519C
36. KC911498(Iran) Derenko J1d5 20-NOV-2013
A73G T127C T152C T204C A263G C295T 309.1C 315.1C C462T T489C A750G A1438G A2706G G3010A T4216C A4769G G4853A C7028T G7789A A7963G A8860G T9090C A10398G A11251G G11719A A12612G G13708A C14766T A15326G C15452A C16069T T16126C C16193T G16274A T16519C
and would be the unique sample more linked to Iran than to Europe (but where are the samples from the supposed regions of Middle East?)
or, if it were a J2b, could be linked to this sample:
39. JQ797948 Pala J2b1a 22-MAY-2012
A73G C150T T152C A263G C295T 309.1C 315.1C T489C A750G A1438G A2706G T4216C A4769G C5633T C7028T C7476T A8860G G10172A A10398G A11251G G11719A A12612G G13708A C14766T G15257A C15319T A15326G C15452A T15511C G15812A C16069T T16126C C16193T G16213A G16274A C16278T A16399G
Anyway only an FMS could say something more careful also about the origin of this sample.

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