T2f


Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:05 am
A Marco Grassi’s friend’s daughter has been tested from 23andMe. She resulted hg. T2f*:

HVR2: 73G 263G
CR: 709A 750G 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 7028T 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- 8697A 8860G 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14905A 15218G 15452A 15607G 15928A
HVR1: 16126C 16296T (16519C)

This haplogroup and its 7 subclades so far are diffused above all in Northern Europe, but the closest haplotype is this:

1. JQ703997 Behar T2f 07-APR-2012
A73G A263G 315.1C G709A A750G A1438G G1888A A2706G T4216C A4769G A4917G C7028T C8270T C8281-9d G8697A A8860G T10463C A11251G G11719A A11812G G13368A A14233G C14766T G14905A A15326G C15452A A15607G G15928A T16126C T16189C C16294T C16296T T16519C

And even thought it comes from the clones used from Behar 2012b, this is its origin:
JQ703997, Europe, Italy, T2f.
Thus the oldest T2f* haplotypes are in Italy/Tuscany, coming the oldest ancestress of this girl from Greve in Chianti (Florence Province). One of these hts have no mutation and this has two mutations: a back mutation in 16294C! and an extra mutation in 15218G.
After the hg. K1c1* (also this diffused above all in Northern Europe to-day) found in Crespina (Pisa), the idea of that English Mrs, whose surname I withhold because it is a manqué one, that all these hgs came to Italy from elsewhere (and recently!) is difficulty supported. This T2f* is estimated from Behar 2102b more than 11000 years old and is clearly Palaeolitic.
That even though the upstream subclade (T2/16189C) is found in the periphery of the core European world:
JQ798135 Pala Haplogroup [T2] 22-MAY-2012 [JQ798135, Europe, Crete, T2]
A73G T195C A263G 315.1C G709A A750G A1438G G1888A A2706G T4216C A4769G A4917G A6662G C7028T G8697A A8860G T10463C A11251G G11719A A11812G G12528A G13135A G13368A A14233G C14766T G14905A A15326G C15452A A15607G G15928A T16126C T16189C C16294T T16519C

HM852766(Armenian 23) Schoenberg Haplogroup [T2] 17-MAR-2011
A73G A263G T310- C522- A523- G709A A750G A1438G G1888A A2706G T4216C A4769G T4774N A4917G C7028T C7244T G8697A A8860G T10463C A11251G G11719A A11812G G12236A G13368A T13500C A14047N A14233G C14766T G14905A A15326G C15452A A15607G G15928A T16126C T16189C C16294T C16296T T16519C

Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:07 am
But if we look at the data given from Behar 2012b about hg. T2*, we can see how mystifying has been the research of all these scholars:

Haplogroup T2 has 11 samples


SAMPLE ID: MC43
Unresolved Options:

Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C C8281d C8282d C8283d C8284d C8285d T8286d C8287d T8288d A8289d A10496G C16179T C16292T
Topologically Missing: 8281-8289d
Country: Finland
Geography:
Ancestry:
Reference:
Contact:
SAMPLE ID: MC53
Unresolved Options:

Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C T2080C G3736A G5471A C6445T G7852A T8632C T12408C T13260C G14323A A14605G
Topologically Missing: C16294T
Country: Spain
Geography:
Ancestry:
Reference:
Contact:
SAMPLE ID: MC621
Unresolved Options:

Verified
Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C C8281d C8282d C8283d C8284d C8285d T8286d C8287d T8288d A8289d
Topologically Missing: 8281-8289d
Country: Italy
Geography: Liguria
Ancestry:
Reference:
Contact:
SAMPLE ID: MC1525

NCBI ID: JQ703083
Unresolved Options: T2b2-C16304T!;

Verified
Partial Descendants: T2b(G930A; G5147A; );
Private Mutations: A11020G;
Topologically Missing: C195T(L2'3'4'6);
Country:
Geography:
Ancestry:
Reference: Behar 2012b
Contact:
SAMPLE ID: MC1957
Unresolved Options:

Verified
Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: C295a 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C G4655A G15812A C16287T
Topologically Missing:
Country: Lebanon
Geography:
Ancestry:
Reference:
Contact:
SAMPLE ID: MC3742

NCBI ID: JQ705300
Unresolved Options:

Verified
Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: T1673C; T16298C; C16365T;
Topologically Missing:
Country: Poland
Geography:
Ancestry:
Reference: Behar 2012b
Contact:
SAMPLE ID: MC4084
Unresolved Options:

Verified
Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C A6218G C7418T G8251R A8271G A10446G C11062T C16291T T16362C
Topologically Missing:
Country: United States
Geography: TN
Ancestry:
Reference:
Contact:
SAMPLE ID: MC4132

NCBI ID: JQ705690
Unresolved Options: T2b-T16362C;

Verified
Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: A6218G; C7418T; A8271G; A10446G; C11062T; T14182Y; C16291T; T16362C;
Topologically Missing:
Country: Ireland
Geography:
Ancestry:
Reference: Behar 2012b
Contact:
SAMPLE ID: MC5206
Unresolved Options:

Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: G499A 522.1A 522.2C T3041C A3051c A3101t G3131c A3141c G6261A C8285i G15326A T16126D A16127D 16129.1C C16179T T16187D 16189.1T
Topologically Missing: A11914G C152T A16129G T16187C C16189T T16126C C16294T
Country:
Geography:
Ancestry:
Reference:
Contact:
SAMPLE ID: MC14437

NCBI ID: AY339566
Unresolved Options:

Verified
Partial Descendants: T2c(C10822T; C16292T; );
Private Mutations: T4823C; T7283C; C8775T; A16146G; A16284G;
Topologically Missing:
Country:
Geography:
Ancestry:
Reference: Finnila 2001
Contact:
SAMPLE ID: MC20825

NCBI ID: JF707633
Unresolved Options:

Verified
Partial Descendants:
Private Mutations: A215G; C2523T; G9380A; G9438A; C16301T;
Topologically Missing:
Country:
Geography:
Ancestry:
Reference: FamilyTreeDNA
Contact:

because only the samples MC43 (from Finland) and MC621 (from Liguria/Italy) have the deletion of 9bps (8281-8289) and are the ancestor of hg. T2f*. The samples I quoted above from Creta and Armenia haven’t it, thus, even though they have the mutation in 16189C, they aren’t the ancestors of the European T2f*, and, amongst these two samples (from Finland and from Liguria), only the Ligurian one is the ancestor, not having other mutations like the basal haplotype from Italy JQ703997. Clearly the position in 16189 was in heteroplasmy.

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