Mt R0


Posts: 2321
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 10:04 am
1) At last a deep paper about mt hg. R0 (Gandini, F. et al. Mapping human dispersals into the Horn of Africa from Arabian Ice Age refugia using mitogenomes. Sci. Rep. 6, 25472; doi: 10.1038/srep25472 (2016).). The authors say that this haplogroup came from a supposed Arabian refugium. I am asking whether beyond the notorious rich Phoenician and Jews linked to FTDNA there are also Arabs to fund these papers.
Hg. R0a'b has firstly two subclades: R0b found in Southern Europe and Caucasus and R0a which had three subclades: sample 202 is European, the 60.1T subclade had 5 subclades, whose three are above all from Europe and the Caucasus. Thus Europe gets so far always the oldest subclades.
I am asking if it wouldn't be better to wait for aDNA before saying where the place of dispersion was from.
2) Sample R0a2k isn't only that found from Achilli, but also my relative Fabrizio Federighi from Santa Maria a Monte (Pisa Province), whose I suspected descending from Leonardo da Vinci's mother, anyway not from Arabia: more likely from around the Black Sea if not deeply Italian.
3) "The results for Europe also suggest a primary dispersal into Southeast and Mediterranean Europe at the end of the Pleistocene/early Holocene, mainly involving R0a2r, with the signal a little earlier with f2 than f1. This may have been via a Levantine refugium, given the presence of basal Druze lineages in the cluster (and a Syrian in the HVS-I data). It recalls the patterns detected in a much larger fraction of haplogroup J and T lineages that dispersed from an inferred Levantine refugium along the Mediterranean after the LGM42. Some lineages may have dispersed later in the Holocene, but this is unclear given the small sample size (R0a occurs amongst Europeans at a rate of only 0.8%)" (p. 9).
This is the proof. Old stereotypes beyond very likely some rich sponsor.
It isn't true that hg. J expanded from Middle East or Arabia. It arrived there only 5000 years ago and a second Arab subclade only 3300 years ago. The origin of IJ is in the Western European hunter-gatheres as the aDNA has demonstrated and anyway it secondly expanded from a Caucasian refugium eastward to India and westward to Europe, where old subclades, above all of J2 abut also J1, were present also before. As the recent paper of Fu et al. 2016 has demonstrated, the brother hg. I were in Italy already more than 30000 years ago, and a confirmation of my theories is that R1b1-preP297* was in Italy 14000 years ago and not in Middle East, beyond R-V88 I supposed many years ago and was confirmed from the Francalacci et al. 2013 and 2105 data on Sardinians. This is clear to everyone now.
The IJ* at Socotra doesn't demonstrate origin but only a migration from somewhere as the same paper presupposes for the same R0a1a1 from 10.3 ka (p. 3).
We will end all bought from Emirates! Shame!
User avatar
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:19 am
Location: Family Line Veneto ( italy ) since ~1600
YDNA:
T1a2-Z19945
MtDNA:
H95a
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:51 pm
Gioiello wrote:1) At last a deep paper about mt hg. R0 (Gandini, F. et al. Mapping human dispersals into the Horn of Africa from Arabian Ice Age refugia using mitogenomes. Sci. Rep. 6, 25472; doi: 10.1038/srep25472 (2016).). The authors say that this haplogroup came from a supposed Arabian refugium. I am asking whether beyond the notorious rich Phoenician and Jews linked to FTDNA there are also Arabs to fund these papers.
Hg. R0a'b has firstly two subclades: R0b found in Southern Europe and Caucasus and R0a which had three subclades: sample 202 is European, the 60.1T subclade had 5 subclades, whose three are above all from Europe and the Caucasus. Thus Europe gets so far always the oldest subclades.
I am asking if it wouldn't be better to wait for aDNA before saying where the place of dispersion was from.
2) Sample R0a2k isn't only that found from Achilli, but also my relative Fabrizio Federighi from Santa Maria a Monte (Pisa Province), whose I suspected descending from Leonardo da Vinci's mother, anyway not from Arabia: more likely from around the Black Sea if not deeply Italian.
3) "The results for Europe also suggest a primary dispersal into Southeast and Mediterranean Europe at the end of the Pleistocene/early Holocene, mainly involving R0a2r, with the signal a little earlier with f2 than f1. This may have been via a Levantine refugium, given the presence of basal Druze lineages in the cluster (and a Syrian in the HVS-I data). It recalls the patterns detected in a much larger fraction of haplogroup J and T lineages that dispersed from an inferred Levantine refugium along the Mediterranean after the LGM42. Some lineages may have dispersed later in the Holocene, but this is unclear given the small sample size (R0a occurs amongst Europeans at a rate of only 0.8%)" (p. 9).
This is the proof. Old stereotypes beyond very likely some rich sponsor.
It isn't true that hg. J expanded from Middle East or Arabia. It arrived there only 5000 years ago and a second Arab subclade only 3300 years ago. The origin of IJ is in the Western European hunter-gatheres as the aDNA has demonstrated and anyway it secondly expanded from a Caucasian refugium eastward to India and westward to Europe, where old subclades, above all of J2 abut also J1, were present also before. As the recent paper of Fu et al. 2016 has demonstrated, the brother hg. I were in Italy already more than 30000 years ago, and a confirmation of my theories is that R1b1-preP297* was in Italy 14000 years ago and not in Middle East, beyond R-V88 I supposed many years ago and was confirmed from the Francalacci et al. 2013 and 2105 data on Sardinians. This is clear to everyone now.
The IJ* at Socotra doesn't demonstrate origin but only a migration from somewhere as the same paper presupposes for the same R0a1a1 from 10.3 ka (p. 3).
We will end all bought from Emirates! Shame!



The ydna of T1 recently found in the ancient levant/Jordainan burials had mtdna R0a ..................but his admixture is noted as North-Anatolian
I1707 Levant PPNB 7722–7541 BC

I1707 belonged to Y haplogroup T1-PF5610(xT1a1, T1a2)
Fathers mtdna - T2b17 ...back to 1860 Bucciol line
Grandfathers mtdna - T1a1e ...back to 1820 Mestriner line
Sons Mtdna - K1a4 ....back to 1840 Tesser line
Maternal grandfather ydna - Ild-P109

Posts: 2321
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:58 pm
stoeni wrote:The ydna of T1 recently found in the ancient levant/Jordainan burials had mtdna R0a ..................but his admixture is noted as North-Anatolian
I1707 Levant PPNB 7722–7541 BC

I1707 belonged to Y haplogroup T1-PF5610(xT1a1, T1a2)


I think it is clear to everyone now that Middle Easterners but above all Northern Anatolians received a great intake from WHG (Villabruna is 100% WHG and it is certain out of any doubt now that he lived in Italy at least 14000 years ago).

Posts: 2321
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:29 pm
These are the 23andMe results of Mirian Rossi, Brasilian coming from Veneto:
HVR2: 61T 263G
CR: 750G 1438G 2355G 2706G 3847C 4769G 7028T 8860G 13188T 14766T 15674C 15924G
HVR1: 16168T 16266T
Mismatches (0) : (58T)
Extra (3): 61T 15924G 16168T
No-Calls(5):64T 2442C 11914A 16126C 16362C
Untested(2): 60.1 15326
If we integrate no calls and not tested SNPs, her results could be:
58T 60.1T 61T 64T 263G 750G 1438G 2355G 2442C 2706G 3847C 4769G 7028T 8860G 11914A 13188T 14766T 15326G 15674C 15924G 16126C 16168T 16266T 16362C

These are the results of Patti Pruden, whose ancestress we know now came from San Ginese, Lucca province, Tuscany, Italy
60.1T 64T 263G 309.1C 315.1C 750G 1438G 2355G 2442C 2706G 3447G 3847C 4769G 5585A 7028T 8860G 11914A 12885T 13188T 14766T 15326G 15626T 15674C 16126C 16266T 16362C

These are the two samples on Phylotree:
KC911373(Iran) Derenko Haplogroup [R0a2] 20-NOV-2013
T58C 60.1T C64T A263G 309.1C 315.1C A750G A1438G A2355G T2442C A2706G T3847C A4769G G6249A C7028T A8860G G11914A C13188T C14766T A15326G T15674C T16126C C16266T T16362C
JF717356(Italy) Achilli Haplogroup [R0a2] 14-SEP-2011
T58C 60.1T C64T A263G 309.1C 315.1C A750G A1438G A2355G T2442C A2706G A3447G T3847C A4769G C7028T A8860G G11914A C13188T C14766T A15326G C15626T T15674C T16126C C16266T T16362C
KC911373 has the mutation G6249A
Patti Pruden and JF717356 have in common the mutations A3447G and C15626T.
Patti Pruden has also the mutations 5585A and 12885T
Mirian Rossi, even though partially tested, has the mutation 61T 15924G and 16168T. Beyond that she has 58T.
As to the private mutations of the other samples we may say:

A3447G G5585A G6249A 12885T C15626T
i3002078 MT 3447 A
i3002254 MT 5585 G
i4001299 MT 6249 G
12885T not tested
i5050872 MT 15626 C
Thus very likely Mirian doesn't get any of these private mutations.

So we have three samples of R0a2n in Italy and 1 in Iran.

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