New DNA Papers

General discussions regarding DNA and its uses in genealogy research

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Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:01 pm
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:"It was a given that R1b was in the Steppes long before the various Yamnaya groups coalesced. We have the accepted origin of R (R1?) at least at Mal'ta Buret' Siberia (MA-1) around 24,000 ybp."

The poster who wrote this on another forum is wrong because the ancestors of Native Americans who crossed the Bearing Strait 13,000 years ago did not carry R1b and there was not only the one wave of NA ancestors. There were multiple waves according to all the scientific papers about the NA and no evidence of any R1b lines in the NA. That is the evidence that R1b was a more recent event in eastern Europe.

The L23 samples that were found in ancient dna in eastern Europe were not the ancestors of P312, S1200 and U106. And one has to explain how the Bronze Age R1b in western Europe had Samara autosomal dna when they and their L51 bottlenecked ancestors were not born in Samara. It had to come from Samara females.

Dartraighe, we have to be cautious about all that.
1) Mal’ta boy is certain, but he was only a dead end line, not our line.
2) That R1 was in central Siberia 25000 years ago is possible, above all to me that don’t believe to the “Out of Africa”, thus an origin of Y in East Asia as Shi Huang thinks is likable.
3) That R1 wasn’t in NA doesn’t mean anything about its Asian origin in Central Siberia, because NA arrived in America 13000 years ago but stayed thousands of years in Beringia.
4) We don’t know the expansion of the oldest R1 lines, except that 14000 years ago they were at Villabruna and 12000 years ago at Les Iboussiéres.
5) What happened later is clear to me, and will be clearer when aDNA from Italy is published. We’ll understand also all the pathways. Anyway Western Europe.

No R1b in the Native Americans suggests that no R of any kind survived in Siberia or eastern Europe for that matter. Q1a was not born in Beringia.

It is L23 that is most important to us because R1b M269 went through a huge bottleneck before the birth of L23. We are looking at a very small isolated M269 clan who survived for at least 7,000 years.

L23 expanded in the Neolithic but L51, the branch leading to P312,S1200 and U106, did not expand until the BA. There is not one piece of evidence to suggest that P312,S1200 and U106 expanded in eastern Europe!

Villabruna does not have the correct SNP status for the time that he lived. His dna status could not be resolved and it seems to me that most of the R1b samples before the BA in western/central Europe have not been resolved through ancient dna tests.

Posts: 2124
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:43 pm ... osome.html

"Dad genes are particles on the sex-specific Y chromosome, long mocked for being a stunted clump of mostly useless nucleic waste but lately revealed as man’s fastest friend, essential to the health of male bodies and brains no matter the age."

"Researchers have discovered that, contrary to longstanding assumptions, the Y chromosome is not limited to a handful of masculine tasks, like specifying male body parts in a developing embryo or replenishing the sperm supply in an adult man."

"New evidence indicates that the Y chromosome participates in an array of essential, general-interest tasks in men, like stanching cancerous growth, keeping arteries clear and blocking the build up of amyloid plaque in the brain."

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