Who's your (proto) daddy Western Europeans?

General discussions regarding DNA and its uses in genealogy research

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:54 pm
The U106 project admins suggest that the ancestor of U106 came from north of the Black Sea. That is the Ukraine. It is very easy to solve the U106 and P312 ancestor problem by testing ancient dna samples from the western Ukraine in the period 4,200-6,000 ybp. I don't know why the scientists have not done this already.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:24 pm
Mr Eurogenes says that "Globular Amphora-related admix in Yamnaya and Corded Ware is female mediated, so it can't be the PIE signal."

He must be thinking that the R1a in CWC were the male Yamnaya dna group. The Yamnaya can't be R1a and R1b at the same time. They had to belong to either one or the other YDNA groups. The CWC is earlier than BBC. If the Yamnaya were a R1a and R1b mixed migration then we should see them both in the CWC.

"Also, confirmed the Reich Lab is working on a Bronze Age to Neolithic Italian samples" Eurogenes blog..

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:11 pm
dartraighe wrote:"Also, confirmed the Reich Lab is working on a Bronze Age to Neolithic Italian samples" Eurogenes blog..



From "Eurogenes blog":
June 6, 2018 at 12:52 PM
Salden said...
PBS did a segment on ancient DNA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0txUv9ei5I
Also confirmed the Reich Lab is working on a Bronze Age to Neolithic Italian sample.
June 6, 2018 at 9:10 PM


Mr Reich says that his lab is testing "5000- or 6000-years-old samples from Italy".
At last, beyond the six samples so far, and before the supposed migration of R1b from Yamnaya. Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:55 am
Originally Posted by David Reich
"This preponderance of male ancestry coming from the steppe implies that male descendants of the Yamnaya with political or social power were more successful at competing for local mates than men from the local groups. The most striking example I know of is from Iberia in far southwestern Europe, where Yamnaya-derived ancestry arrived at the onset of the Bronze Age between forty-five hundred and four thousand years ago. Daniel Bradley's laboratory and my laboratory independently produced ancient DNA from individuals of this period.[28] We found that approximately 30 percent of the Iberian population was replaced along with the arrival of steppe ancestry. However, the replacement of Y chromosomes was much more dramatic: in our data around 90 percent of males who carry Yamnaya ancestry have a Y-chromosome type of steppe origin that was absent in Iberia prior to that time. It is clear there were extraordinary hierarchies and imbalances in power at work in the expansions from the steppe."

Gioielllo
It was P312 that was found in Iberian BB graves and Mr. Reich has yet to prove that P312 originated in any part of the Steppe. We are still waiting for the earliest P312 results from the Steppe and we will be waiting because if they had found one already we would have heard about it. The scientists would not be writing about autosomal Steppe dna.

There is one airhead on another forum who insists that the BBC were a male dominant society even though females were buried with Bell Beakers and the earliest BB grave was found in France and was a female.
Olalde et al
"BB_Central_Europe BB_France_Heg I1392 .. H1+152 2832-2476 calBCE France F"


Mr Eurogenes says that the earliest M269 from the Steppe was sample 10429 but this ancient sample was Z2108 not L51 nor P312. And finding a Z2108 from a grave in Samara from 3150BC does not mean that Z2103 was born or originated there. The earliest Z2103 sample was found in Iran but it does not fit so it will not be written about.
Last edited by dartraighe on Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 2348
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:35 am
dartraighe wrote:Mr Eurogenes says that the earliest M269 from the Steppe was sample 10429 but this ancient sample was Z2108 not L51 nor P312. And finding a Z2108 from a grave in Samara from 3150BC does not mean that Z2103 was born or originated there. The earliest Z2103 sample was found in Iran but it does not fit so it will not be written about.


Mr Eurogenes is out of head. He banned this night also Rob (an Australian of Balkan/Slav descent, not the bad on that blog). About Dritte Reich what to say? They own all the aDNA, all the labs, all the funds, and you know that they think to be the most intelligent. What to say? He is testing aDNA from Italy (from 6000 to 5000 years ago). Let’s wait for their results, and we’ll speak again.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:50 am
Gioiello wrote:
dartraighe wrote:Mr Eurogenes says that the earliest M269 from the Steppe was sample 10429 but this ancient sample was Z2108 not L51 nor P312. And finding a Z2108 from a grave in Samara from 3150BC does not mean that Z2103 was born or originated there. The earliest Z2103 sample was found in Iran but it does not fit so it will not be written about.


Mr Eurogenes is out of head. He banned this night also Rob (an Australian of Balkan/Slav descent, not the bad on that blog). About Dritte Reich what to say? They own all the aDNA, all the labs, all the funds, and you know that they think to be the most intelligent. What to say? He is testing aDNA from Italy (from 6000 to 5000 years ago). Let’s wait for their results, and we’ll speak again.



They have thousands of ancient samples that they have not made public and none of them are P312 from the Steppe. We know this already because they would only be too keen to publish them.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:56 pm
Last quarrels about Rob and some observations of our "old europe". After the paranoia.
Rob said...
Sure Dave . Surround yourself with yes-me steppetards
That’s why everyone is leaving your blog
June 8, 2018 at 7:15 PM
Davidski said...
@Rob
A couple of new blogs have sprang up lately. I'm sure you'll be welcome there, so what's the big deal? There isn't one. All the best with everything.
June 8, 2018 at 9:59 PM

old europe said...
"So as things stand, the ancient DNA record suggests that Yamnaya may not be Late PIE as such, but one of the Late PIE groups, and earlier PIE groups may have been expanding out of the steppe around a 1000 years before Yamnaya"
So as for now the steppe theory should favor the Sredni Stog culture as the PIE culture.
corded ware as an offshoot of hungaria Yamnaya???
How can Anthony sustain this theory after the discovery of the proto-corded ware sample R1a M-417 in the same culture (SS) that had corded ware pottery and stone battle axes?
June 9, 2018 at 7:58 AM

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:33 am
Gioiello
The scientists who stated that there was a mass migration of R1b males from the Steppe have yet to prove it. They have not shown a massive presence of R1b P312 and U106 anywhere within the Steppe. They have shown us a number of R1b P312 especially L21 and U152 results from BBC grave sites in western Europe and that is all that they have produced so far.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:52 pm
Gioiello
We know that a lot of males carrying the M222 SNP left Ireland for America over the past 400 years. We can see that the M222 branches still survive in Ireland today in huge numbers and M222 has been in Ireland for the past 4,000 years.

We do not see P312 and U106 in huge numbers in the Steppe in the ancient dna nor the modern dna. That is the reason that we do not agree with the present hypothesis. There is no evidence at all of an L51,L11, P312 or U106 population expansion in the Steppe before they allegedly entered western Europe, which can only lead to one conclusion that it never happened.

The L51,151 bottleneck is the absolute proof that there was no L51, 151 expansion in the Steppe.

If P312 was such a successful R1b branch in western Europe in the BA, why was it not successful in the BA Steppe? Where are all the descendants of the earliest successful P312 branches in the Steppe today?

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Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:10 am
One poster at anthrogenica persists with this nonsense.
"Firstly because you are oblivious of autosomal DNA connected to P312: you don't have P312 without some level of autosomal Steppe Admixture. Secondly because older subclades above P312 are found in the Steppe, nowhere else. There is therefore a direct link between P312 and the Pontic Steppe."


Gioiello
Which subclades above P312 were found in the Steppe, L51, L151, L11? What is he raving on about? He must have access to some ancient dna samples that no scientist has made public yet or else he is hallucinating. A direct link between P312 and the Steppe is BS because P312 has not been found in the Steppe yet.
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