Who's your (proto) daddy Western Europeans?

General discussions regarding DNA and its uses in genealogy research

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MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:34 am
Gioiello
If they find the earliest P312 sample in the Steppe in ancient dna I will apologize and move on. In the mean time we wait for the evidence.


P312 was not old enough to be found in the Khvalynsk Culture (5,000 BC). The birth of P312 around 3,000 BC seems to be more believable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khvalynsk_culture


The Passage Tomb builders in Ireland had strong links to Brittany in France and I hope that the Irish scientists have YDNA samples from them. We know that the Passage Tomb builders had strong links to Iberia also. One can see that in the Eurogenes K36 ancient female sample M427312 from an Irish Passage Tomb. The K36 is a good calculator for Iberian and Basque dna estimates.

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Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:17 pm
A poster makes a good point about P312;
"The longer the period between the birth of P312 and the appearance of the beaker culture the more mysterious it is because somehow they must have stayed together in one area or group throughout that time."

It suggests that P312 until the birth of the BBC was a smaller group than was thought of by the scientists. That means that there was no massive R1b invasion of western Europe of L51 subgroups. U106 looks like it was a lot younger and certainly smaller group even than P312 in the early BA. And the absence of U106 in the BBC is evidence of this. The earliest U106 found in Sweden is dated to after the Beaker period.


The BB males must have got some or most of their "Steppe" autosomal dna from females. The Yamnaya were a mixture of EHG,CHG,WHG and EEF.

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Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:39 pm
dartraighe wrote:A poster makes a good point about P312;
"The longer the period between the birth of P312 and the appearance of the beaker culture the more mysterious it is because somehow they must have stayed together in one area or group throughout that time."

It suggests that P312 until the birth of the BBC was a smaller group than was thought of by the scientists. That means that there was no massive R1b invasion of western Europe of L51 subgroups. U106 looks like it was a lot younger and certainly smaller group even than P312 in the early BA. And the absence of U106 in the BBC is evidence of this. The earliest U106 found in Sweden is dated to after the Beaker period.


The BB males must have got some or most of their "Steppe" autosomal dna from females. The Yamnaya were a mixture of EHG,CHG,WHG and EEF.


What all these morons don't know, beginning with the most famous (or infamous) like Dritte Reich and Pinhasi-ah-sì etc, is that we are finding in Eastern Liguria, in people tested from Marco Grassi above all with www.yseq.net, persons belonging to the oldest subclades, and the most recent one is just that of Napoleon Bonaparte, deeply rooted in Lunigiana, which has the closest relatives in Armenia and Russia 3000 years ago. Nothing to do with Middle East as all like to think. The last is also an R-A431*, thought of Northern European origin as to its actual diffusion, like R-U106, but here we have Always the oldest subclades. Is it by chance?

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MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:09 am
Poster
"So to get "Yamnaya" all you need is gene flow from a Globular Amphora-like population."


The GAC was earlier than Yamnaya and shows that there was gene flow from west to east into Yamnaya and that explains WHG and EEF in Yamnaya.

The fact that no L51 subclades has been found yet in the Steppe suggests that L51's origin/birth was western/central Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globular_Amphora_culture

And a major Steppe YDNA group missing from Bell Beaker sites is R1a. According to Mr Eurogenes Steppe R1a populated India in the BA but was not able populate western Europe. Mr Eurogenes also stated that R1a and R1b moved from Samara to western Europe together but it seems they got separated along the way, no R1b in CWC and no R1a in BBC.

There is a lot of fiction written in eurogenes, anthrogenica and eupedia.

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MtDNA:
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:46 am
Gioiello
Why did the Max Planck lab focus on tests of BB sites? They should have tested lots of ancient dna samples from western Ukraine to prove to the world that P312, U106 and S1200 originated there and that there was massive presence of these groups in the Ukraine before they entered western Europe. We are still waiting for the evidence. It is no big deal to most R1b testers whether their R1b ancestors originated in Iberia, the Steppe or the Caucasus but it means a lot to the few anti-Iberians R1b at anthrogenica.

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MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:39 am
The scientists need to explain the massive migration from the Ukraine that brought R1a into the CWC and R1b into the BBC. How were the R1a and R1b lines separated? They did not do dna tests in the BA. The Ukraine is the ancestral home of R1a not R1b and there is a huge R1a presence in the Ukraine today. R1b is a minority group in modern Ukrainians. Not one R1a has shown up in ancient dna samples in the Bell Beaker Culture and yet there are dna papers stating that there was a massive male migration during the BA from the Pontic Steppe that transformed the Iberian BBC. Also, Iberian Bell Beaker pots never made it to the Ukraine during the BA.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:20 pm
The Iberian Bell Beakers never made it to the Ukraine and the scientists cannot test BB remains in the Ukraine for P312. They can test other BA sites or even Neolithic sites but I hope that it does not take years to make them public. I hope that the scientists can show the birth of all the major subgroups of P312,U106 and S1200 in the Ukraine but, if they cannot, I hope that they will admit that they were wrong about the massive P312,U106 and S1200 migration from the Steppe.


The poster "Gaska" is the only one that knows anything about genetics at anthrogenica. He is probably a scientist.

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MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:11 pm
We are still waiting for the first and earliest P312 or U106 ancient dna sample from the Steppe to prove that the massive presence of P312 and U106 in western Europe today is the result of a Steppe invasion/migration 4,500 ybp.

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MtDNA:
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:42 am
It is amazing the amount of DF27 branches that have a TMRCA of 4,500 in western Europe and especially Iberia. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would not suggest that DF27 originated in the Steppe. Where are all the modern Steppe DF27 branches?!!!

Most of DF27 branches originated in Iberia and the modern dna is the proof. A small number of DF27 testers who do not like Iberia as the origin place but they will just have to get over it. The vast majority of DF27 testers accept the reality and embrace it.




https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-DF27/

Posts: 2154
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:49 am
"Oldest Steppe Bell Beakers" is a BS term dreamed up by the anti-Iberian Bell Beaker Culture origin posters. Bell Beakers were never found in the Steppe. One would think that some of the "Steppe" migrants would have returned home to see their YDNA cousins in the Steppe and bring some of the Iberian Bell Beaker pots with them.

No 70% Steppe autosomal R1a were found in any Iberian ancient dna sites to date.

The Steppe dna found in western Europeans could be from a common ancestor like the Villabruna clan.

It is real comedy reading about the Neolithic CHG denial in Yamnaya by some posters. It had to be from an earlier period to make it fit with the Yamnaya PIE origin. And all the farmers arriving into eastern Europe from the Caucasus were females. LOL

The G haplogroup ancient dna samples found in a lot of western Europe Neolithic graves originally from the Caucasus had no CHG!! More comedy.

The first farmers were deaf and dumb or the Yamnaya wiped out the language of the farmers. More comedy from eurogenes blog.
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