Who's your (proto) daddy Western Europeans?

General discussions regarding DNA and its uses in genealogy research

Posts: 2233
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:26 pm
dartraighe wrote:It is amazing the amount of DF27 branches that have a TMRCA of 4,500 in western Europe and especially Iberia. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would not suggest that DF27 originated in the Steppe. Where are all the modern Steppe DF27 branches?!!!

Most of DF27 branches originated in Iberia and the modern dna is the proof. A small number of DF27 testers who do not like Iberia as the origin place but they will just have to get over it. The vast majority of DF27 testers accept the reality and embrace it.




https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-DF27/



DF27 showed up in Iberian origin Bell Beaker I0806 from Quedlinburg, Germany, 2431-2150 BC (midpoint 2,290 BC). This is the earliest DF27 in the whole of Europe. Germany is not in the Steppe and DF27 was not found in the Steppe !!

Some airheads insist that L51 was born in the Steppe due to the fact that the brother Z2103 was born in the Steppe. The scientists do not state that Z2103 was born in the Steppe. The earliest Z2103 was found in Iran not in the Steppe.
Last edited by dartraighe on Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 2410
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:06 pm
dartraighe wrote:Some airheads sinsist that L51 was born in the Steppe due to the fact that the brother Z2103 was born in the Steppe. The scientists do not state that Z2103 was born in the Steppe. The earliest Z2103 was found in Iran not in the Steppe.


Ahahahahah, it seems that also mt H32 has been found in Iran, but of course it came from Italy, where all the upstream subclades are. Let's wait that Dritte Reich publishes his aDNA from Italy, but why only from 6000 to 5000 years ago? And the Balzi Rossi and Arene Candide from 12000 years ago (see Les Iboussiéres) to 6000 ya?

Posts: 2233
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:54 am
"Dr. Aleksandr Khokhlov says that R1b-P312 has been found in Late Khvalynsk skeletons from Ekaterinovsky Cape. "

Where are all the modern descendants of this P312 who was found in Khvalynsk culture in Samara?!!! If Mr P312 was born in Samara then Mr P312 had 1,500 years to create a lot of descendants in the Samara region and we do not see that in the modern dna. P312 is a western European R1b phenomena not an eastern European one. There is no P312 YSNP trail from Samara to France.

Posts: 2233
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:28 pm
R-L51 Y410 • E207 PF6535 PF6414 CTS10373 • PF6537 • FGC39 L51 • M412 • S167 • PF6536
R-L151 PF6416 PF6538 CTS7650 • PF6544 • S1164 • FGC44 Y101 • FGC796 • Z8159 PF5856 YSC0001249 • CTS10353 • S1175 L11 • S127 • PF6539 L151 • PF6542 L52 • PF6541 • A19949 P311 • S128 • PF6545 YSC0000191 • PF6543 • S1159 P310 • S129 • PF6546

All of these YSNPs are the common ancestors of both P312 and U106. They have not been found in Iberia to date and neither have they been found in any ancient dna samples from the Steppe. These YSNPs represent only one single line of descent from 6,000 years until 4,800 years according to Yfull.


The earliest descendant of P312 was the U152 sample found in present day Germany, not in the Steppe. This ancient dna sample did not show in any calculator as 60% EHG and 40% CHG.

Posts: 2233
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:22 am
https://twitter.com/CharlestonCWKC/stat ... 7886810112



"LC: Irish Neolithics draw highest haplotypic donations from Early Neolithic Iberians also. In late Neolithic, also uneven Yamnaya ancestry across British Isle (less Steppe gene-flow in Ireland, also local divergence)."

Posts: 2233
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:36 pm
There is not one L21 tester who thinks that L21 originated in the Steppe. Where then is the massive wave of R1b from the Steppe? P312 was only one man. L21, DF27 ,U152 and 50 other branches of P312 were not born in the Steppe and neither were they born in Hungary. So how did all the R1b males in western Europe acquire all this "Steppe" dna? Was it from just one P312 male? The autosomal dna can be wiped out in 150 years or six generations we were informed by one expert.


There is one Iberian basal branch of L21 now at Yfull.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L21/

Posts: 2233
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:02 am
Dr. Reich writes that as of August of 2017, his lab alone had genome-wide data on over 3,000 ancient dna samples. The current total number of ancient dna samples are 3,748 but, only 711 ancient dna samples have been published.

[i]Dr Reich thinks that steppe dna and Y chromosomes of steppe origin spread throughout Europe from the east, but he sees Bell Beaker spreading initially out of Iberia as a kind of religion.

All the evidence to date points to an Iberian origin for the Bell Beaker culture .

I think that Dr Reich "put the cart before the horse" by publishing the Bell Beakers dna before he published the dna of the proposed homeland in the Steppe of the western European Bell Beakers who were R1b.

He has not done so yet and if he has 3,000 dna samples with the evidence, what is the hold up in publishing the data?

Posts: 2233
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:42 pm
The genetic history of the Iberian Peninsula over the last 8000 years

Olalde et al.

"The Iberian Peninsula, lying on the southwestern corner of Europe, provides an excellent opportunity to assess the final impact of population movements entering the continent from the east and to study prehistoric and historic connections with North Africa. Previous studies have addressed the population history of Iberia using ancient genomes, but the final steps leading to the formation of the modern Iberian gene pool during the last 4000 years remain largely unexplored. Here we report genome-wide data from 153 ancient individuals from Iberia, more than doubling the number of available genomes from this region and providing the most comprehensive genetic transect of any region in the world during the last 8000 years. We find that Mesolithic hunter-gatherers dated to the last centuries before the arrival of farmers showed an increased genetic affinity to central European hunter-gatherers, as compared to earlier individuals. During the third millennium BCE, Iberia received newcomers from south and north. The presence of one individual with a North African origin in central Iberia demonstrates early sporadic contacts across the strait of Gibraltar. Beginning ~2500 BCE, the arrival of individuals with steppe-related ancestry had a rapid and widespread genetic impact, with Bronze Age populations deriving ~40% of their autosomal ancestry and 100% of their Y-chromosomes from these migrants. During the later Iron Age, the first genome-wide data from ancient non-Indo-European speakers showed that they were similar to contemporaneous Indo-European speakers and derived most of their ancestry from the earlier Bronze Age substratum. With the exception of Basques, who remain broadly similar to Iron Age populations, during the last 2500 years Iberian populations were affected by additional gene-flow from the Central/Eastern Mediterranean region, probably associated to the Roman conquest, and from North Africa during the Moorish conquest but also in earlier periods, probably related to the Phoenician-Punic colonization of Southern Iberia."


Where are the DF27 samples from the Steppe that proves that DF27 was born there?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posts: 2233
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:43 pm

MtDNA:
U5b2b
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:26 am
Genetic transition in the Swiss Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age
A. Furtwängler et al

"Major genetic turnovers in European populations marked the beginning as well as final stages of the Neolithic period as shown
by recent studies. The transition from hunter-gatherers to agriculturalists and farmers in the 6th millennium BCE coincided
with a human migration from the Near East. A second migration into Central Europe occurred originating from the Pontic
steppe in the 3rd millennium BCE and was linked to the spread of the Corded Ware Culture which ranged as far southwest as
modern day Western Switzerland. These genetic processes are well studied, for example for the Middle-Elbe-Saale region in
Eastern Germany, however, little is known from the regions that connect Central and Southern Europe.
In this study, we investigate genome-wide data from 97 individuals from the Swiss Plateau, Southern Germany and the Alsace
Region in France that span the transition from the Neolithic to the Bronze Age (5500 to 4000 BP). Our results show a similar
genetic process as reported for the Middle-Elbe-Saale region suggesting that the migration from the Pontic steppe reached all
the way into the Swiss Plateau
. However, our evidence suggests that the onset of that transition may have started even earlier
in Switzerland compared to the Middle-Elbe-Saale region.

The existence of core families within multiple burials, the determination and quantification of different ancestry components
and the evaluation of a migration route taken by the ancestors of the Late Neolithic populations in this region were analysed.
Our data represent the first comprehensive genome wide dataset from Neolithic individuals from the Swiss Plateau and
provide the first insights into the genetic history of this region."

There is no new dna paper on the Pontic steppe nor dna samples for the 6,000-4,500 year period (before the invasion), when is that going to happen?????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posts: 2410
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:08 am
Location: Pisa (Italy)
YDNA:
R- Z2110 (KV7Y2)
MtDNA:
K1a1b1e/HQ176413
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:05 am
dartraighe wrote:Genetic transition in the Swiss Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age
A. Furtwängler et al

"Major genetic turnovers in European populations marked the beginning as well as final stages of the Neolithic period as shown
by recent studies. The transition from hunter-gatherers to agriculturalists and farmers in the 6th millennium BCE coincided
with a human migration from the Near East. A second migration into Central Europe occurred originating from the Pontic
steppe in the 3rd millennium BCE and was linked to the spread of the Corded Ware Culture which ranged as far southwest as
modern day Western Switzerland. These genetic processes are well studied, for example for the Middle-Elbe-Saale region in
Eastern Germany, however, little is known from the regions that connect Central and Southern Europe.
In this study, we investigate genome-wide data from 97 individuals from the Swiss Plateau, Southern Germany and the Alsace
Region in France that span the transition from the Neolithic to the Bronze Age (5500 to 4000 BP). Our results show a similar
genetic process as reported for the Middle-Elbe-Saale region suggesting that the migration from the Pontic steppe reached all
the way into the Swiss Plateau
. However, our evidence suggests that the onset of that transition may have started even earlier
in Switzerland compared to the Middle-Elbe-Saale region.

The existence of core families within multiple burials, the determination and quantification of different ancestry components
and the evaluation of a migration route taken by the ancestors of the Late Neolithic populations in this region were analysed.
Our data represent the first comprehensive genome wide dataset from Neolithic individuals from the Swiss Plateau and
provide the first insights into the genetic history of this region."

There is no new dna paper on the Pontic steppe nor dna samples for the 6,000-4,500 year period (before the invasion), when is that going to happen?????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Ahahahah, these kurganists are ridiculous at the diktat of Dritte Reich! Why "However, our evidence suggests that the onset of that transition may have started even earlier in Switzerland compared to the Middle-Elbe-Saale region"? Perhaps because they started from South and not from the steppes?
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